LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  January 2009

CODE4LIB January 2009

Subject:

MARC 21 and MODS

From:

Rebecca S Guenther <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:29:26 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

In response to some of the recent posts on this list (some excerpted below)...

People often confuse what is required by the MARC 21 syntax with what is in the element set and with what content rules are applied to populate the elements (I saw some of this confusion in the various posts on this topic on this list). With MARCXML we have solved some of the MARC classic communication format problems (e.g. using the directory structure to parse the record), although there are still some of the same limitations in terms of coded data and the availability of enough subfields. It is interesting though that a study of different metadata formats at Los Alamos National Labs a few years ago concluded that MARCXML was the richest and most robust.
http://www.dlib.org/dlib/september06/goldsmith/09goldsmith.html

MODS began as an open process to develop an XML format that would be highly compatible with MARC data but simpler and easier to understand and rich enough to satisfy user needs.  We have now had about 7 years to experiment with it and it has been fairly successful in achieving a wide implementation base. It does attempt to solve some of MARC's obvious problems, for instance redundant data throughout the record; tagging for where data appears in the record rather than what it is; limitations of 3 character numeric tags and 26 alphabetic characters; etc. It allows for lots of extensibility both in use of controlled vocabularies developed within or outside of the format, addition of local fields, use of external schemas, etc. The related Item area is very flexible and has proven quite powerful in its use of the same data elements as MODS itself (particularly for whole/part relationships). Yes, some features retain some of the kludges in MARC, and if we were starting again we might have done some things differently. The MODS Editorial Committee is going to be looking at some of these areas and suggesting changes (as mentioned by Jenn Riley). Now, though, since there are quite a large number of users, we have to be careful about too much disruption. 

MODS has been particularly successful in digital library projects where compatibility with MARC is important because MARC records are being reused and/or MODS and MARC records need to be used together in the same context. It also has been widely used as a common format between disparate database structures and formats where a certain amount of richness in the metadata is important.

We are also working on modeling MODS as RDF-- some work has already been done on this. 

In terms of MARC, we are planning for its evolution and streamlining to get rid of some of its problems and plan for a future where the transition to new cataloging rules will work well with existing records and cataloging infrastructure. Whatever the format of the future is, the transition will need to be evolutionary because of the billions of records that are out there and the need to satisfy a lot of the user tasks required of library (and other) metadata. Another factor is the continuing need for the other MARC formats (in addition to bibliographic): authority, holdings, even classification. There will still need to be interaction between these various types of records to satisfy user tasks. It is also worth noting that despite some calls for a MARC replacement, we have a number of national libraries throughout the world that are abandoning their national formats and just now adopting MARC 21. They also need to be considered in this transition.

Rebecca

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:11:04 +0100
From:    Alexander Johannesen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: marc21 and usmarc

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 18:06, Jonathan Rochkind <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Because their customers are not demanding it, and they
> often don't have the technical expertise to understand
> why it matters anyway.  But mainly because
> their customers are not demanding it.

So, um, could librarians everywhere start being just a tad bit more
demanding about this stuff? You know, before your profession becomes
obsoleted from this planet?

Actually, I was wondering what areas MODS can't handle which MARC
does, hijack and / or change MODS to fit it (what I know of it seems a
bit limiting, but through XML certainly extensible). Shouldn't folks
start by demanding at least MODS (or XOBIS if we're *really* crazy :)?


Regards,

Alex
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Project Wrangler, SOA, Information Alchemist, UX, RESTafarian, Topic Maps
------------------------------------------ http://shelter.nu/blog/ --------
------------------------------
------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:50:41 -0800
From:    Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: marc21 and usmarc

Kyle Banerjee wrote:
>   
>> Actually, I was wondering what areas MODS can't handle which MARC
>> does, hijack and / or change MODS to fit it (what I know of it seems a
>> bit limiting, but through XML certainly extensible). Shouldn't folks
>> start by demanding at least MODS (or XOBIS if we're *really* crazy :)?
>>     
>
> Frankly, the important stuff is there and it would be possible to
> modify MODS to accommodate the things that aren't. The main reason
> you're stuck with MARC is that there are a lot of legacy loaders out
> there so even if all transmission was done in MODS, you'd still have
> to convert it to MARC.
>
>   
I am less optimistic about MODS than Kyle. Having watched it be made, I 
think it's more than just a bit of a kludge, and carries forward a lot 
of the problems of MARC21. I also don't think that it has a strong model 
or philosophy behind it. I think we can do much, much better. What is 
stopping us is what comes up here: you can create a better record, but 
that doesn't mean that library systems will use it. Even so, I'm up for 
trying to create that better record, and I'm even up for creating one 
that is compatible with library cataloging practices, at least in their 
intent. Some of us talked about this on the exhibits floor of ALA just 
in the last few days.

I will start by re-organizing a document I did a few years ago but that 
was never publicly released. I'll do a new, public version and post it, 
then wiki it so we can have the discussion. Also, I think that the 
cataloger scenarios in the DC/RDA wiki are beginning to show what one 
can do with the FRBR assumption behind the record.

kc

-- 
-----------------------------------
Karen Coyle / Digital Library Consultant
[log in to unmask] http://www.kcoyle.net
ph.: 510-540-7596   skype: kcoylenet
fx.: 510-848-3913
mo.: 510-435-8234
------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:32:48 -0500
From:    "Riley, Jenn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: marc21 and usmarc

> I am less optimistic about MODS than Kyle. Having watched it be made, I 
> think it's more than just a bit of a kludge, and carries forward a lot 
> of the problems of MARC21. I also don't think that it has a strong model 
> or philosophy behind it. I think we can do much, much better. 

I agree with Karen's characterization of how MODS has developed since its inception. The good news is that will hopefully change soon. The newly formed MODS/MADS Editorial Committee is developing a design principles document that will help guide future versions of MODS and MADS. We'd gratefully welcome feedback on what those principles should be. The MODS list [1] is probably the best place for that discussion to take place, but some of the Committee members are on this list too, so ideas brought up here won't be lost on that group. I suspect we'll have a draft document to share on the MODS list in the next month or so, but ideas for what should be on it before then are even more valuable. :-)

[1] http://listserv.loc.gov/listarch/mods.html

Jenn 
(Chair, MODS/MADS Editorial Committee)

========================
Jenn Riley
Metadata Librarian
Digital Library Program
Indiana University - Bloomington
Wells Library W501
(812) 856-5759
www.dlib.indiana.edu

Inquiring Librarian blog: www.inquiringlibrarian.blogspot.com




Rebecca S. Guenther                                                       
 Senior Networking and Standards Specialist                  
 Network Development and MARC Standards Office     
 Library of Congress   
 101 Independence Ave. SE                                       
 Washington, DC 20540                                                      
 Washington, DC 20540-4402                                          
 (202) 707-5092 (voice)    (202) 707-0115 (FAX)           
 [log in to unmask]

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager