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All, I'm glad to see some positive responses to this new effort. I know that Jeff Humphrey knew about oss4lib prior to beginning this and that he has opened lines of communication with Dan since this discussion started. Thank you all for your support and encouragement as this new venture begins. I am a member of a consortium task force that has been evaluating all sorts of PAC enhancements/front ends, ILS's, and more. Our consortium is interested in what is happening with OSS in and for libraries, but are cautious adopters. I continue to notice that many Directors, front-line librarians, and even systems librarians are unfamiliar with some of the ramifications and considerations that should be kept in mind when reviewing FLOSS for implementation. I see lots of interest, but the level of understanding is still low. It's up to us as IT professionals (who happen to also be librarians) to help make this transition easy for them if we expect them to seriously consider using OSS tools and apps for library purposes. The standard disconnect between technologists and users continues to be an obstacle that must be overcome. It's funny because I sent Dan's article from CIL titled "What Libraries Still Don't Know about Open Source" to several of our lists on Tuesday. Our members need executive summaries like KGS writes and introductions like Dan's to help break the ice. I'm still trying to find a locally hosted wiki package that has an easy to use interface so the front-line librarians don't balk the first time they try to use the syntax. My place of work has used OSS from the beginning and we use it almost exclusively if we have a choice. However, the folks we support are just *users* and they most often don't have the programming and coding skills to modify what they need to make it work locally. But WE do, and that's our job. I think coders and programmers often can be intimidating to converse with. Anyone who has joined an established developers forum will know to what I am referring. The "thread nazi's" on forums make it hard for n00bs to jump in without getting squashed. I'm not making any comparisons or allusions here, just talking about the general esoteric nature of programming and coding communities. For the lone systems librarian at small institutions with a beginner or intermediate skill level in programming, a different level of discussion will be necessary. I also think the average, non-techie librarian would be more likely to participate in a group where others were at that level. I haven't participated on oss4lib, so I can't speak to that. Please don't read more into this than what I am stating. OSS is not a panacea and comes with it's own set of draw-backs and bugs. No single software product is perfect, but the freedom to make it your own, IF you have the skills, knowledge, time, money, and staff, is incremental to helping libraries transition from a total dependence on vendor development for our products. I am happy that Liblime is taking the approach that they have thus far to help libraries transition into this model. Paying for service rather than the product. I suppose my point is that catering to various levels of users seeking information is a good thing and in keeping with the democratic principles the movement is founded on. I feel that two sites will likely complement each other. If there is a need being met it will succeed. If not it will fade away. Such is the way of the net and technology in general. -- *Chadwick J. Seagraves:* M.S.L.S Library Systems Analyst Private Academic Library Network of Indiana Indiana Cooperative Library Services Authority (317) 298-6570 ext. 116 or (800)-733-1899 6202 Morenci Trail Indianapolis, IN 46268 palni.edu <http://www.palni.edu> InfoSciPhi.info <http://www.infosciphi.info>