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Shawn Boyette ☠ wrote: > I don't think he was asking about *programmers* creating or modifying *schema*. It's true -- I just want a simple little data entry tool (which I've got now! That was easy.) I've been doing all of my development by hand, without the luxury of frameworks, not out of any programmerly virtue, but just out of simplicity -- ie, I've not taken the time to learn about frameworks. It sure would be nice to take the time at some point, and I'll keep Tim's injunctions about abstraction in mind when I do. *thanks and joy* Ken > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Tim Spalding <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> This gets religious quickly, but, in my experience, programmers who >> learn on a framework miss out on their understanding of database >> necessities. They may not matter much when you have a low-traffic, >> low-content situation, but as your traffic and data grow you're going >> to want an understanding of how MySQL optimizes queries, what's >> expensive and what's not, and so forth. Although anyone can learn >> anything, experience is the best teacher, and, in my experience, >> frameworks encourage you to avoid that experience. >> >> For example, the Ruby programmers I've worked with have been unaware >> that MySQL only uses one index per table per select, causing them to >> index far more than they need, how joins work across different MySQL >> data types, the advantages of ganging your inserts together, etc. This >> stuff adds up fast. >> >> Of course, the same arguments could be leveled against PHP in favor of >> C, against C in favor of assembly, etc.. Abstraction always has merits >> and demerits. >> >> Tim >> > -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University