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Rowan, I think a caged computer is the best way to go to house the software. As far as software goes, I've been looking into some open source library systems. I wonder if perhaps NewGenLib might work for you. http://www.verussolutions.biz/web/ They state that they system will fully automate within 4 days, but that seems to be a bit of a hefty claim, in my opinion. Nicole On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 3:12 PM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > So it is! It needs an external monitor that also needs power, but > definitely > one to keep in mind. Thanks Ross. > > On 7 October 2011 20:43, Ross Singer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > By the time you're up and running, this http://www.raspberrypi.org/ > > may be an option for you, as well. > > > > A lot cheaper than an iPhone... > > -Ross. > > > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> > > wrote: > > > Well I thought that we could plug either an iphone or computer (eg > > netbook > > > or your dev. board) into an UPS and extend the battery life that way. > It > > > would be on standby most of the time. The longest it would have to last > > > would be a week because any on the committee could plug it in while > they > > are > > > in the library. And maybe other people could plug it in but it would > have > > > more chance of being left plugged in. Whatever we had would have to be > > > secured and yes, it will be difficult to do and one of the reasons we > do > > > everything manually - nothing to steal. I used to run an undergrad > > computer > > > lab in the 80s that was unstaffed and everything tied down. People used > > to > > > nick the cables. I suppose the choice between an iphone and a computer > > would > > > be price and running time on an UPS. > > > > > > At the moment the only access to the internet from the library is over > > the > > > mobile phone net so whether we use computer or iphone the cost will be > > the > > > same. They have just put up poles for fibre optic, but I've learnt not > to > > > hold me breath over things like that. > > > > > > I have to say, it seems like the librarian is starting to consider it. > > When > > > I first brought it up 2 years ago the reaction was, we could never > > automate > > > here! I said something the other day about it taking 3 years and she > > said, > > > oh way longer than that. By then, who knows what there will be? > > > > > > On 7 October 2011 12:35, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > >> One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a > > >> recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more > > >> expensive than regular internet collections. This could easily run > over > > >> replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance. Also, that > while > > a > > >> regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant, > > gold-plated > > >> theft risk, in a super-portable size. Also, there's no way you're > going > > to > > >> get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as > a > > >> terminal. > > >> > > >> - Dave Mayo > > >> > > >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with > > surge > > >> > protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone > told > > me > > >> > the > > >> > other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing > is > > >> here. > > >> > One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real > > >> > electrician here who understands how do do these things. > > >> > > > >> > At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a > > big > > >> > overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about > it, > > but > > >> > we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we > cut > > our > > >> > losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll > > lose > > >> > it > > >> > occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and > > >> > unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave > > Mayo > > >> > pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or > we > > >> could > > >> > use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged > once > > a > > >> > week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really > want > > to > > >> > encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library! > > >> > > > >> > I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. > They > > >> > don't > > >> > know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our > > own > > >> > system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we > > need. > > >> We > > >> > don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we > > >> really > > >> > need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do > > >> loans, > > >> > returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have > > to. > > >> > > > >> > If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest? > > >> > > > >> > Thanks > > >> > Rowan > > >> > > > >> > On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]> > > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by > > >> > lightning. > > >> > > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at > > the > > >> > very > > >> > > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge > > >> protectors > > >> > > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner? > > >> > > > > >> > > Nicole > > >> > > MLS Student > > >> > > Southern Connecticut State University > > >> > > > > >> > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner < > > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > >wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's > whether > > we > > >> > can > > >> > > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in > > an > > >> > > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Thanks Cary > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not > > >> necessarily > > >> > > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily > get > > >> > > > > information about what your patrons are doing. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Cary > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner < > > >> > [log in to unmask]> > > >> > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. > It > > >> > would > > >> > > be > > >> > > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it > > takes > > >> 3 > > >> > > > years > > >> > > > > to > > >> > > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to > > >> figure > > >> > > it > > >> > > > > out. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and > > >> > emailed > > >> > > > them > > >> > > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. > Maybe > > >> the > > >> > > > could > > >> > > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd > > >> world > > >> > at > > >> > > a > > >> > > > > > tenth of the cost! > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee > > meeting > > >> > > this > > >> > > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and > > is > > >> > > highly > > >> > > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time > > >> eight > > >> > of > > >> > > > us > > >> > > > > sit > > >> > > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they > > have > > >> for > > >> > > the > > >> > > > > last > > >> > > > > > 60 years! > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Cheers > > >> > > > > > Rowan > > >> > > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about > when > > I > > >> > say > > >> > > > > >> "micro-development board": > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This > > >> > > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a > > certain > > >> > > extent > > >> > > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this > > could > > >> > > work > > >> > > > > >> fairly > > >> > > > > >> well as a web server for the area. > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if > > you're > > >> > > > willing > > >> > > > > to > > >> > > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - > although, > > of > > >> > > > course, > > >> > > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise. It won't solve the > > >> > lightning > > >> > > > > >> problem > > >> > > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device > > arcing > > >> > is > > >> > > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board > computers > > are > > >> > low > > >> > > > > enough > > >> > > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run > > them > > >> > for > > >> > > a > > >> > > > > long > > >> > > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it > when > > the > > >> > > storm > > >> > > > > was > > >> > > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too, > > likely. > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I > could > > >> see > > >> > > > > something > > >> > > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving > as > > the > > >> > > > > scanner, > > >> > > > > >> for example. You could also (if you got one with a video > > >> output) > > >> > > > attach > > >> > > > > a > > >> > > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and > check-out. > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might > > be > > >> > able > > >> > > to > > >> > > > > get > > >> > > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are > several > > >> apps > > >> > > that > > >> > > > > do > > >> > > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras. > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful. > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> - Dave > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant < > > >> > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet > > >> figured > > >> > > out > > >> > > > > >> > pricing. We are definitely considering the needs of the > > >> > > developing > > >> > > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet. At this point we are > > most > > >> > > > focused > > >> > > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human > > >> > > intervention. > > >> > > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most > > >> > > automatable > > >> > > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)." > > >> > > > > >> > Roy > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner < > > >> > > > [log in to unmask]> > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in > US. > > >> > Also, > > >> > > if > > >> > > > > it > > >> > > > > >> > will > > >> > > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be > at > > >> least > > >> > > > $700 > > >> > > > > a > > >> > > > > >> > year? > > >> > > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for > > first > > >> > > world > > >> > > > > >> > countries > > >> > > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time > > staff > > >> > > which > > >> > > > we > > >> > > > > >> > don't > > >> > > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. > There > > >> are > > >> > > > > probably > > >> > > > > >> > 1000s > > >> > > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still > > and > > >> if > > >> > > > there > > >> > > > > are > > >> > > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > Cheers > > >> > > > > >> > > Rowan > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo < > > [log in to unmask]> > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just > amused > > by > > >> > the > > >> > > > > typo. > > >> > > > > >> It > > >> > > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page, > > and > > >> > > perhaps > > >> > > > > >> > >> elsewhere. Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as > > >> "absolutley" > > >> > on > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > >> > sign-up > > >> > > > > >> > >> page. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant < > > >> > > > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL) > > >> > > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/ > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is > > very > > >> > > easy > > >> > > > to > > >> > > > > >> use > > >> > > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities. > > It's > > >> in > > >> > > free > > >> > > > > >> trial > > >> > > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you > > >> need. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant > > >> > > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON > < > > >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs > so-called > > >> Web > > >> > > > > >> Management > > >> > > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat > > local.) > > >> > > and > > >> > > > > circ > > >> > > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud.. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122 > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184 > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201 > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070 > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] < > > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate > > without > > >> a > > >> > > > > computer > > >> > > > > >> > yet? > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most > > >> > community > > >> > > > > >> libraries > > >> > > > > >> > >> used > > >> > > > > >> > >> > to > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed > about > > 15% > > >> > of > > >> > > > > books > > >> > > > > >> > aren't > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations. > > So > > >> we > > >> > > have > > >> > > > > that > > >> > > > > >> > >> > constant > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog > manually. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I > > was > > >> > > > thinking > > >> > > > > >> > maybe > > >> > > > > >> > >> > with a > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I > > didn't > > >> > > think > > >> > > > > >> > >> librarything > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a > > catalog. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon? > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Cheers > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Rowan > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo < > > >> > [log in to unmask]> > > >> > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a > > solution > > >> > > that's > > >> > > > > >> > entirely > > >> > > > > >> > >> > cloud > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> based. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a > very > > >> > limited > > >> > > > > subset > > >> > > > > >> > of > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a > > >> LibraryThing > > >> > > > paid > > >> > > > > >> > account > > >> > > > > >> > >> or > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation > > >> > works/is > > >> > > > > >> expected > > >> > > > > >> > to > > >> > > > > >> > >> > work > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present. Is there a > > sign-out > > >> > > sheet? > > >> > > > > How > > >> > > > > >> do > > >> > > > > >> > >> you > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage? > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner < > > >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but > volunteers > > >> just > > >> > > come > > >> > > > > in 2 > > >> > > > > >> > hrs > > >> > > > > >> > >> a > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> week. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave > > >> > anything > > >> > > > > plugged > > >> > > > > >> > in > > >> > > > > >> > >> it > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> will > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in > cloud > > >> > > forest. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the > > >> software > > >> > on > > >> > > a > > >> > > > > >> server > > >> > > > > >> > or > > >> > > > > >> > >> > do > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> we > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system? > > Running a > > >> > > > system > > >> > > > > >> > >> ourselves > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme < > > >> > > > [log in to unmask] > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan- > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems > > very > > >> > > easy > > >> > > > to > > >> > > > > >> do. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > There > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> are > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as > > Koha > > >> and > > >> > > > > >> Evergreen > > >> > > > > >> > >> that > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/ > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/ > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time > > the > > >> > > library > > >> > > > > is > > >> > > > > >> > open > > >> > > > > >> > >> to > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers? Or are you counting on borrowers > > >> having > > >> > > > > >> smartphones > > >> > > > > >> > to > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > complete > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout? > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -- > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, > Baba > > >> > > O'Reilly > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but > if > > >> > anyone > > >> > > > can > > >> > > > > >> point > > >> > > > > >> > me > > >> > > > > >> > >> > in > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> the > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction... > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't > leave > > a > > >> > > > computer > > >> > > > > in > > >> > > > > >> > it. > > >> > > > > >> > >> Is > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> there > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > a > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and > > catalog > > >> > in > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > >> > cloud. > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and > > clients > > >> > > access > > >> > > > > >> catalog > > >> > > > > >> > >> with > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > -- > > >> > > > > Cary Gordon > > >> > > > > The Cherry Hill Company > > >> > > > > http://chillco.com > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >