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I think that the programming / scripting / markup language discussion is not helpful. Any time you key in something, run it on a computer, and something else comes out (hopefully what is expected), to me, that qualifies as programming. Why not? Cary On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Wilhelmina Randtke <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > "Probably it was the wrong course. I think coding should start with > building web pages. A calculator can't do that." > > HTML is called "markup language", but does anyone here really think it's a > programming language? Even though is gets more complicated over time, it > pretty much doesn't have variables or do interactive things, and is for > displaying things, not manipulating things. > > My point about math and programming is that the curriculum for the average > intro programming class appears to have been developed circa 1972 and never > tweaked. I'm in Programming for Engineers right now, which is the > prerequisite for the classes that looked useful. So far we have written > lots of small programs to add numbers, find modulos, make a simple loop. > All this would have been exciting before calculators. But, yeah, we have > calculators now. And, actually, we had calculators before we had > widespread access to affordable computers. Writing a page long program to > add some numbers makes no sense. It's probably the least efficient way to > solve the problem. Nothing about the coursework shows computers as useful > at solving problems. Everything about the coursework shows computers as > clunky inefficient, difficult to use calculators. And... here is something > we haven't done... We have not yet called a function from inside a > function. So, the whole object oriented thing has not yet appeared, and > it's past midterm time. > > From having looked at a bunch of syllabi online for different intro level > programming classes, I think my experiences are the norm. The intro > classes cover things you can do more easily without coding. > > This type of curriculum is off putting to at least some people. It also > isn't necessary. I think it's possible to design a curriculum where > students could have something to show that would be worthwhile now, as > opposed to worthwhile in 1972 when adding many numbers at once was a big > deal. > > -Wilhelmina Randtke > > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 1:57 AM, Thomas Krichel <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > Wilhelmina Randtke writes > > > > > Pretty much the whole entire entry level programming class for the > > average > > > class covers using code to do things that you can do much more easily > > > without code. > > > > Probably it was the wrong course. I think coding should start with > > building web pages. A calculator can't do that. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Thomas Krichel http://openlib.org/home/krichel > > http://authorprofile.org/pkr1 > > skype: thomaskrichel > > > -- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com