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Hi Christina, I started in a formal tech role in libraries as an Emerging Technology librarian. I've progressed through a few roles. Currently, I'm the Head of ITS at K-State Libraries. From my perspective, the systems and developer roles should have a certain degree of overlap, but they are very different roles, suited for different kinds of people. Our systems folks are often writing code, for instance, to automate processes, or in support of a platform. However, they have to take a more consistently holistic view of the systems they work on. They are the experts that build and update our platforms, making them work, facilitating their working together, and keeping things up to date. They alert me to overall security issues and looming migration needs. They have a deeper understanding of how the systems themselves work, and how the network functions, so if we have issues with a module in an application or a programming language, they can chase down the underlying problem. I expect them to be protective of our systems. They need to tell it to me like it is, and be frank if I'm asking them to do something ill advised. They are folks who take a conservative view of our production systems, but are avid experimenters on our development boxes, ready to push a newer, better way to do things into prod once it proves itself. One area where our systems team and our developer team should have close to the same level of understanding is the model, or data, layer of applications. By contrast, developers (and our shop is currently composed of full-stack developers, without the level of specialization you often see in commercial environments) are more concerned with building applications, as well as smaller-scale solutions like widgets. They need to know how to get layers of an application to communicate efficiently, how to use APIs, how to code effectively in the languages we use, and how to build good user interface. They need to have a solid understanding of current web standards, and keep up to date on changes in programming languages and frameworks. They need to be comfortable with adding customizations to existing products. Just like our systems team is expected to have a deeper knowledge of systems and networks, our developer team is expected to have a deeper knowledge of code and the languages we code in. They need to be able to effectively troubleshoot problems, and refactor old code to new standards. They need to have a solid understanding of application-level security. They need to be able to understand a problem, and imagine a solution written in code. IMHO, the best developers have a sort of 'vision' of the kinds of things they want to build, and are avid experimenters in their application-building. Perspective-wise, you see a big difference. Developers want to build, and can often be frustrated by system restrictions that slow down that work. Systems specialists need to be protective of our systems and zealously guard our platforms with limited privileges to users and solid security procedures. There is a tension there, but it is a useful tension, which can be a positive force. Both perspectives are correct, but neither supersedes the other completely. I fall more on the developer side of the tracks. I've done some sysadmin work (you see this at smaller shops, where you may have only one or a couple of people both writing code and managing systems) , but it's been limited, and I'm definitely not the best candidate for it. Best regards, *Jason Bengtson* *http://www.jasonbengtson.com/ <http://www.jasonbengtson.com/>* On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 7:52 AM Thomas San Filippo < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi Christine, > > I just got my first professional appointment after being out of library > school for 18 months (exactly how long I was warned it would take). My > title is Systems and Educational Technology Liaison. While I was in grad > school, I was very much on the research and instruction track but, > towards the end, I had a really great instructor in a basic web > development course, and I finally saw how useful those skills can be. I > suppose I always knew it in the back of my mind but dismissed web > development as not one of my strengths. > > The job description I applied to was very kitchen sinky, and I > introduced myself during my remote interview as a "noob." I was a > humanities major as an undergrad, and though I've been using HTML since > MySpace days, that was pretty much the extent of my hands-on experience > until halfway through grad school. Since graduation, I've learned > command line Linux and I'm working on Python, but my lack of experience > does keep me up at night. I do not feel as well-prepared from my > Masters' program as I would with a BS in CS. With your IT background, I > see no reason why you should hesitate to apply to a systems job. > > Though I do feel significant impostor syndrome during these early months > at my new job, nobody here seems to think that I'm not up to the task > or, if they do, they are being very nice about keeping it to themselves. > I think what a lot of libraries are looking for is that application of > LIS principles to the techie work that needs to get done, and it might > be more about attitude than aptitude. > > Best, > > > *Thomas San Filippo* > /Systems and Educational Technology Liaison/ > > Pronouns: he/him/his; they/them/their(s) > > Madeleine Clark Wallace Library > <https://wheatoncollege.edu/academics/library/>, G34 > Wheaton College <https://wheatoncollege.edu> > 26 E. Main Street, Norton, MA 02766 <https://goo.gl/maps/d5JvoKZUEXy> > (508) 286-5601 <tel:+15082865601> > Twitter: @WallaceLibrary <https://twitter.com/WallaceLibrary> | > Instagram: /wallacelibrary <https://www.instagram.com/wallacelibrary/> | > Facebook: wheatoncollege <https://www.facebook.com/WheatonCollege/> > On 9/26/18 7:56 PM, Christine Schultz-Richert wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I am a MLIS student and this question is something that is very > interesting > > to me! I am currently researching how well we prepare current and future > > librarians and library workers for data-intensive or techie roles and > > responsibilities. It seems like much of the current research points to > > difficulty in evaluating this question due to the lack of clear > definition > > of what these roles look like in libraries and other information centers. > > In other words, it is challenging to determine how to prepare or evaluate > > librarian preparedness because we don't have a good understanding of what > > the actual competencies for these jobs are - which sounds like what > you're > > referencing here, Christina, that job postings tend to reflect this > > "unicorn" candidate or kitchen sink of skill sets. Its really helpful for > > me to learn about all of your experiences - so thank you so much for > > sharing! > > > > Admittedly, as an IT Data Analyst in an MLIS program, I have a bit of a > > self-serving interest in understanding the overlap in these fields; I'm > > fascinated by the application of LIS principles in other disciplines and > > sectors. And Gem - I am perpetually trying to convince myself to apply > for > > jobs I'm exciting about whether or not I fit 100% of the requirements! I > > agree! > > > > Thanks everyone for providing so much color to these topics! > > > > Christine > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 6:02 PM Salazar, Christina < > > [log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > >> I think a part of why I'm asking is it seems sometimes (oftentimes?) the > >> folks who are doing the hiring or job postings don't really KNOW what > all > >> is involved in many of the techie type librarian positions and so I > often > >> see job postings that seem to throw in all kinds of stuff and it's hard > to > >> tell how much emphasis would be placed on say writing code or > maintaining > >> systems. > >> > >> - Christina > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > >> Gem Stone-Logan > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:52 PM > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Are you a coder/programmer or a systems analyst > or? > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Long-time lurker appearing . . . > >> > >> This is an interesting question to me because I considered systems > >> librarian to be its own thing. My official job titles have been IT > >> Application Engineer, Technology Librarian, and Systems Librarian but I > >> always introduced myself in the library world as a systems librarian > >> because it seemed to cover what I do more than anything else. > >> Broadly, I consider a systems librarian anyone who is primarily > >> responsible in a library for making library-related software work better > >> (either at the application level or the code level). Exactly how you do > >> that depends on your organization's resources and focus. > >> > >> One of my favorite parts of the job is tracking down system quirks. I > love > >> a good mystery. Most of the coding I do is either to supplement things > the > >> ILS can't do or can't do efficiently. > >> > >> (As an aside, I vote for applying to any job you think looks interesting > >> regardless of whether or not you fit the exact requirements. Sometimes > it's > >> hard to tell in job descriptions what the organization really needs.) > >> > >> Gem > >> Systems Librarian (Actual job title at the moment ;) ) > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 2:23 PM Salazar, Christina < > >> [log in to unmask]> wrote: > >>> Hey Everyone, > >>> > >>> I'm going to be so old skool about this and ask this question on the > >>> mailing list, but I'm curious to know if you believe your work is more > >>> coder/programmer or systems/applications analyst or project management > >>> type work? I'm also curious about what types of job titles you have > >>> that do/do not correlate to the work you do on a day to day. (I'm > >>> painting with broad strokes I guess.) > >>> > >>> My job title has pretty much been systems librarian since 2001 and in > >> that time have more closely identified with systems analyst type tasks. > I > >> can code but it's mostly in aid of fixing broken things, not creating > new > >> applications. I guess I also LIKE fixing broken things MORE than making > new > >> ones. I'm also sort of kind of a project manager since I've now assisted > >> with implementation of perhaps a dozen or more library applications > >> (including I think 4 ILSs). > >>> I'm trying NOT to reignite that whole "imposter syndrome" conversation > >>> but focus more on our actual skills and experience (believe me, that > >>> previous paragraph, while empirically true makes me feel all wormy > >>> inside.) I'm contemplating all this in hopes of better marketing > >>> myself for future and current job possibilities (as in, maybe I should > >>> not apply for systems librarian jobs any more since I am not really a > >>> full time coder but more of a "fixer.") > >>> > >>> Thoughts anyone? > >>> > >>> Christina Salazar > >>> Librarian About Town > >>> California State University, Channel Islands John Spoor Broome Library > >>> 805-437-3198 >