LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  October 2010

CODE4LIB October 2010

Subject:

Re: PHP vs. Python [was: Re: Django]

From:

Bradley Allen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:49:24 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (222 lines)

Mark- I would highly recommend looking at Tornado
(http://www.tornadoweb.org) as an alternative to using Django without
the ORM. It provides URL dispatch and templating capabilities without
commitment to a particular storage model, and is fast in standalone
use, without requiring extra scaffolding like WSGI. It has been an
extremely productive framework for me. - BPA

Bradley P. Allen
http://bradleypallen.org



On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Mark Tomko <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Have people found Django fairly usable without using its ORM features?  I'm
> not a big ORM fan, and it seems that so many Python frameworks sort of fall
> over if you try to get around the ORM.
>
> It's a bit of a shame, because I like Python.  I wish Bottle and Flask were
> a little easier to work with.  It feels a little weird having to configure
> WSGI for each application.  I love their minimalist approach to templating,
> though.
>
> Mark
>
> On Oct 29, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Genny Engel wrote:
>
>> I think the significant attributes of most programming languages are
>> adequately summarized here:
>>
>> http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2009/05/brief-incomplete-and-mostly-wrong.html
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Code for Libraries [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of William
>> Sexton [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:24 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP vs. Python [was: Re: Django]
>>
>> I use Python and Django extensively, and think they're both great. That
>> said, also great is the very funny keynote by former flickr engineer Cal
>> Henderson at DjangoCon 2008, titled "Why I Hate Django," which is on
>> YouTube:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Fr65PFqfk
>>
>> When he showed the slide I had to admit that the statement
>>
>> "-".join(array)
>>
>> is kind of a goofy way to do that, though maybe not "unforgivable."
>> Whenever I use join() now I chuckle a little in my mind.
>>
>> It's good to step back and re-evaluate your favorite tools from
>> time-to-time. If nothing else, the ability to analyze a platform for its
>> suitability to a need is key.
>>
>> Will
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:38 AM, Thomas Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> Having used Zope (python based) as our WEB server of choice since 1998 I
>>> am
>>> urged to express my opinion that if you do choose to use python in your
>>> projects then use a service designed for python use such as Zope, Django,
>>> et
>>> al.  Zope is normally run in front of Apache as a virtual host.
>>>
>>> If you are going to use python then Zope is an excellent choice for
>>> interacting with databases and using python to massage/manipulate results
>>> if
>>> you need complex results from the database data.  I like that you can
>>> write
>>> sql queries  just like you might use on the command line and save it as
>>> an
>>> individual object for use by any number of other objects.
>>>
>>> What may be a simple example to some is a tutorial quiz I wrote for the
>>> WEB.
>>> There are categories and each category has any number of questions along
>>> with
>>> the answers in the database.  In the management portion, the
>>> administrator can
>>> choose which categories are active and how many questions out of the
>>> total
>>> available to pull from each category individually.  When the quiz page is
>>> generated the correct number of questions are pulled randomly from the
>>> total
>>> active questions for each category, some questions can be set as
>>> inactive.
>>>
>>> There are "database connectors" for PostgreSQL, MySQL, Oracle, odbc, and
>>> others so you can choose any popular db or write your own connector.  And
>>> there are python libraries written for these databases which prove very
>>> useful.
>>>
>>> The main thing I like about python is that the syntax pretty much forces
>>> your
>>> code to be readable by others because indention is part of the syntax
>>> rather
>>> than semicolons, parens, etc.
>>>
>>> I don't know PHP in detail but am learning more quickly because the
>>> University
>>> is "forcing" all departments to move to Drupal and we will be running our
>>> site
>>> on Drupal within a year probably although some administrative tasks will
>>> still
>>> be running on our Zope server.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>> ps: remember my point is that "IF" you choose to use python this supports
>>> its
>>> use with databases and scripting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 27 October 2010 20:49:06 you wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Olá, como vai?
>>>>
>>>> Luciano Ramalho <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, Python is a general purpose programming language. It was not
>>>>> created specifically for server side scripting like PHP was. But it is
>>>>> very suitable to that task.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure talking about what something used to be is as interesting
>>>> as talking about what it is. Both Pyhton and PHP can share whatever
>>>> moniker we choose (scripting-language, programming language,
>>>> real-time, half-time, bytecoded, virtual, etc.).
>>>>
>>>>>> Not seen any scientific packages, but I've seen a few ray-tracers,
>>>>>> although they're all demo apps and fun toys (although I think that
>>>>>> applies to Python, too).
>>>>>
>>>>> No, that does not apply to Python. Python is widely used for hardcore
>>>>> scientific computing.
>>>>
>>>> I was referring to the ray-tracing part.
>>>>
>>>>> It is also the most important scripting language in large scale CGI
>>>>> settings
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Python is widely used for scripting up interfaces into other more
>>>> complex systems. But rarely is the core of the thing written entirely
>>>> in Python.
>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe your Google-foo is weak. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Or maybe he's just realizing that outside of server side web
>>>>> scripting, PHP is just not so widely used.
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely, and fair enough.
>>>>
>>>>> Having used both languages, I discovered that Python is easier for
>>>>> most tasks, and one reason is that the libraries that come with Python
>>>>> are extremely robust, well tested and consistent.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. PHP is extremely robust and well-tested, but yes, it's not all
>>>> that consistent, especially not before version 5.2+. However, things
>>>> have moved on, and with release 6 around the corner things will be
>>>> tighter still. Just like the first versions of Python were
>>>> interesting, so was PHP's, but where the biggest problem with the
>>>> evolution of PHP was the very fact that it was the most popular
>>>> language for rapid web development by far.
>>>>
>>>>> PHP is very
>>>>> practical for server-side web scripting, but it's libraries are
>>>>> unfortunately full of gotchas, traps and unexpected behaviour.
>>>>
>>>> There's gotchas in every language, even Python.
>>>>
>>>>> A key reason for that is the fact that Python has always had an
>>>>> exception-handling mechanism while PHP has grown something like that
>>>>> only a few years ago
>>>>
>>>> True enough. But earlier versions of any language are less desirable
>>>> than the latest versions, so I'm not sure this is a prevailing
>>>> argument for the horribleness of PHP or any language. These things
>>>> evolve. PHP 5.3+ and soon 6 are looking very good, indeed, but yes, we
>>>> will just have to live with a poor reputation brought on by the big
>>>> number of users and the pre 5.2+ era.
>>>>
>>>>> So, I my opinion, PHP is great at what it does best: enabling quick
>>>>> server-side Web scripting on almost any hosting service on Earth.
>>>>
>>>> I'm fairly sure you can say that because you haven't done much other
>>>> kind of PHP work. :)
>>>>
>>>>> For everything else, it is very worthwhile to learn and use a general
>>>>> purpose dynamic language such as Python, Ruby or Perl.
>>>>
>>>> Of course. Developers should learn many of languages, and choose
>>>> wisely the language best suited to the problem at hand.
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the rant. I must confess I am a founder of the Brazilian
>>>>> Python Association and was its first president, so you can call me a
>>>>> Python advocate.
>>>>
>>>> No bias at all, really. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ==========================================
>>> Thomas McMillan Grant Bennett           Appalachian State University
>>> Operations & Systems Analyst            P O Box 32026
>>> University Library                                Boone, North Carolina
>>> 28608
>>> (828) 262 6587
>>>
>>> Library Systems Help Desk: https://www.library.appstate.edu/help/
>>> ==========================================
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager