Yes, I understand what you're saying, but for this case, leveraging a
framework fixes the problem at hand, which is I feel trumps the
religious debate. 

Personally, I am weary of frameworks for many of the reasons you just
listened. I think if you are interested in using a particular framework,
you should learn the programming language that the framework is written
in first. If you plan to use Struts, write a Web app in Java without
struts first. If you use Symfony, be fluent in PHP first. As for Rails,
I content that there are more people who work in Rails than actually
know how to code Ruby, which may be that platform's downfall.

But doing CRUD manually in PHP is boring and time consuming, and
frequently you're not learning anything. I find it takes 2-10 hours per
table, depending on the dependencies. If you aren't really worried about
highly specialized interfaces or performance issues, I say, "Get er
done!"



---
David Cloutman <[log in to unmask]>
Electronic Services Librarian
Marin County Free Library 

-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Tim Spalding
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 8:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier & less powerful than
phpMyAdmin?


This gets religious quickly, but, in my experience, programmers who
learn on a framework miss out on their understanding of database
necessities. They may not matter much when you have a low-traffic,
low-content situation, but as your traffic and data grow you're going
to want an understanding of how MySQL optimizes queries, what's
expensive and what's not, and so forth. Although anyone can learn
anything, experience is the best teacher, and, in my experience,
frameworks encourage you to avoid that experience.

For example, the Ruby programmers I've worked with have been unaware
that MySQL only uses one index per table per select, causing them to
index far more than they need, how joins work across different MySQL
data types, the advantages of ganging your inserts together, etc. This
stuff adds up fast.

Of course, the same arguments could be leveled against PHP in favor of
C, against C in favor of assembly, etc.. Abstraction always has merits
and demerits.

Tim

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Cloutman, David
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> This is why most Web applications have to implement CRUD interfaces.
PHP is definitely for the uninitiated.
>
> Along the lines of CodeIgnitor, I would suggest using another
framework Symfony. It's a very powerful, yet easy to learn framework,
and it will autogenerate the CRUD for you. Really, some framework is
probably the way to go for this, regardless of which you choose.
>
> - David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Ken Irwin
> Sent: Wed 7/30/2008 6:35 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier & less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be
> editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of
> phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for
> updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating
to
> the uninitiated.
>
> Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want
> something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at
> just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop,
> empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would
> prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key
> data and things like that.
>
> I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be
> reinventing the wheel. Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Ken
>
> --
> Ken Irwin
> Reference Librarian
> Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
>
>
> Email Disclaimer:
http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm
>



-- 
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