Wait, are you really going to try to do this with _SFX_ too?   I missed 
that part. Oh boy. Seriously, I think you are in for a world of painful 
hacky kludge.

Rosalyn Metz wrote:
> Owen,
>
> The reason I suggest a source parser rather than a target parser is
> that handling the openurl based on the source rather than shave a bit
> of time off.  Attached is a slide i created (back in the day when it
> was my job to create such slides...no i don't sit around in my hole
> creating slides because i'm bored...although.....) that shows the
> process an OpenURL goes through.
>
> So the source parser in this example would come into play before the
> OpenURL metadata hits the SFX KB.  It would bypass the bottom half of
> the slide completely and reduce any weird formatting that SFX might
> try to do to the metadata with a value like website (if you tell sfx
> you're looking for an article but you're really looking for a book it
> sometimes ignores metadata unrelated to an article even though you
> might actually need it).  if you never let it get to that point, then
> you don't need to worry about that "feature" coming into play.
>
> Source parsers aren't used as frequently as they once were, but they
> used to be a way to retrieve more metadata from databases that didn't
> create useful openurls (not that many vendors create useful openurls
> now...).  but if you go a hackish route you could use a source parser
> like a redirect rather than using it to fetch more metadata.
>
> If none of this makes sense let me know and i can try to describe it
> better off list so as not to bore people into oblivion.
>
> Rosalyn
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:52 AM, O.Stephens <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>   
>> Thanks Rosalyn,
>>
>> As you say we could push a custom value into rfr_genre. I'm a bit torn on this, as I guess I'm trying to do something that isn't 'hacky' - or at least not from the OpenURL end of it. It might be that this is just wishful thinking, and that I'm just trying to fool myself into thinking I'm 'sticking to the standard' when the likelihood of what I'm doing being transferrable to other scenarios is zero (although Eric's comments make me hope not)
>>
>> Yes, we are using SFX. What I'm proposing on the SFX end as the path of least resisitance is writing a source parser for our learning environment which can do a 'fetch' for an alternative URL, or use the primary URL, and put it in an SFX internal field rft_856. We can then use the existing Target Parser 856_URL which displays the contents of rft_856 in the menu. Combined with some logic which forces this as the only option under certain circumstances we can then push the user directly to the resulting URL.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> Owen Stephens
>> TELSTAR Project Manager
>> Library and Learning Resources Centre
>> The Open University
>> Walton Hall
>> Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA
>>
>> T: +44 (0) 1908 858701
>> F: +44 (0) 1908 653571
>> E: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>     
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>>> Behalf Of Rosalyn Metz
>>> Sent: 15 September 2009 14:42
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Implementing OpenURL for simple web resources
>>>
>>> you could force a timestamp if people don't include a date.
>>>
>>> and I like the idea of going to the Internet Archive of a
>>> website, because then you're not having to get into the
>>> business of handling www.bbc.co.uk differently than cnn.com
>>> and someblog.org.
>>>
>>> i also like the idea of using a redirect.  you could
>>> theoretically write a source parser (i'm assuming youre using
>>> SFX based on what you said about bX) that says if my rfr_id =
>>> mylocalid and the item is a website (however you choose to
>>> identify the website...which if you're writing your own
>>> source parser you could put website in the rft_genre even
>>> though its not technically a metadata format but you just
>>> want your source parser to forward the url on anyway, so the
>>> link resolver isn't actually going to do anything with it)
>>> bypass everything and just direct to the internet archive of
>>> the website.
>>>
>>> all of this is of course kind of hackish...but really isn't
>>> the whole thing hackish?  there were a few source parsers
>>> that would be good models for writing something like this.
>>> but i have no idea if they still exist because i haven't
>>> looked at the back end of sfx in about a year.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:12 AM, O.Stephens
>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> I agree with this Rosalyn. The issue that Nate brought up
>>>>         
>>> was that the content at http://www.bbc.co.uk could change
>>> over time, and old content might be moved to another URI -
>>> http://archive.bbc.co.uk or something. So if course A
>>> references http://www.bbc.co.uk on 24/08/09, if the content
>>> that was on http://www.bbc.co.uk on 24/08/09 moves to
>>> http://archive.bbc.co.uk we can use the mechanism I propose
>>> to trap the links to http://www.bbc.co.uk and redirect to
>>> http://archive.bbc.co.uk. However, if at a later date course
>>> B references http://www.bbc.co.uk we have no way of knowing
>>> whether they mean the stuff that is currently on
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk or the stuff that used to be on
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk and is now on http://archive.bbc.co.uk -
>>> and we have a redirect that is being applied across the board.
>>>       
>>>> Thinking about it, references are required to include a
>>>>         
>>> date of access when citing websites, so this is probably the
>>> best piece of information to use to know where to resolve to
>>> (and we can put this in the DC metadata). Whether this will
>>> just get too confusing is a good question - I'll have at
>>> think about this.
>>>       
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>> PS using the date we could even consider resolving to the
>>>>         
>>> Internet Archive copy of a website if it was available I
>>> guess - this might be useful I guess...
>>>       
>>>> Owen Stephens
>>>> TELSTAR Project Manager
>>>> Library and Learning Resources Centre
>>>> The Open University
>>>> Walton Hall
>>>> Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA
>>>>
>>>> T: +44 (0) 1908 858701
>>>> F: +44 (0) 1908 653571
>>>> E: [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>>>>           
>>> On Behalf
>>>       
>>>>> Of Rosalyn Metz
>>>>> Sent: 14 September 2009 21:52
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Implementing OpenURL for simple
>>>>>           
>>> web resources
>>>       
>>>>> oops...just re-read original post s/professor/article
>>>>>
>>>>> also your link resolver should be creating a context
>>>>>           
>>> object with each
>>>       
>>>>> request.  this context object is what makes the openurl
>>>>>           
>>> unique.  so
>>>       
>>>>> if you want uniqueness for stats purposes i would image the link
>>>>> resolver is already doing that (and just another reason to use an
>>>>> rfr_id that you create).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Rosalyn Metz
>>>>>           
>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>       
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Owen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rft_id isn't really meant to be a unique identifier
>>>>>>             
>>>>> (although it can
>>>>>           
>>>>>> be in situations like a pmid or doi).  are you looking
>>>>>>             
>>> for it to be?
>>>       
>>>>>> if so why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if professor A is pointing to http://www.bbc.co.uk and
>>>>>>             
>>>>> professor B is
>>>>>           
>>>>>> pointing to http://www.bbc.co.uk why do they have to have unique
>>>>>> OpenURLs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rosalyn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Eric Hellman
>>>>>>             
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>           
>>>>>>> Nate's point is what I was thinking about in this comment in my
>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>> reply:
>>>>>>> If you don't add DC metadata, which seems like a good
>>>>>>>               
>>> idea, you'll
>>>       
>>>>>>> definitely want to include something that will help you
>>>>>>>               
>>> to persist
>>>       
>>>>>>> your replacement record. For example, a label or
>>>>>>>               
>>>>> description for the link.
>>>>>           
>>>>>>> I should also point out a solution that could work for
>>>>>>>               
>>> some people
>>>       
>>>>>>> but not
>>>>>>> you- put rewrite rules in the gateways serving your
>>>>>>>               
>>> network. A bit
>>>       
>>>>>>> dangerous and kludgy, but we've seen kludgier things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 14, 2009, at 4:24 PM, O.Stephens wrote:
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>> Nate has a point here - what if we end up with a commonly
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> used URI
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> pointing at a variety of different things over time, and
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> so is used
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> to indicate different content each time. However the
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> problem with a 'short URL'
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> solution (tr.im, purl etc), or indeed any locally assigned
>>>>>>>> identifier that acts as a key, is that as described in
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> the blog post
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> you need prior knowledge of the short URL/identifier to
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> use it. The
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> only 'identifier' our authors know for a website is it's
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> URL - and
>>>>>           
>>>>>>>> it seems contrary for us to ask them to use something
>>>>>>>>                 
>>> else. I'll
>>>       
>>>>>>>> need to think about Nate's point - is this common or an
>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>> edge case? Is there any other approach we could take?
>>>>>           
>>>>>>> Eric Hellman
>>>>>>> President, Gluejar, Inc.
>>>>>>> 41 Watchung Plaza, #132
>>>>>>> Montclair, NJ 07042
>>>>>>> USA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> http://go-to-hellman.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>               
>>>> The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC
>>>>         
>>> 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity
>>> registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
>>>       
>> The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
>>
>>