LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  December 2010

CODE4LIB December 2010

Subject:

Re: Announcing OLAC's prototype FRBR-inspired moving image discovery interface

From:

Kelley McGrath <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:20:07 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (175 lines)

Okay, I tried to put in tables and that didn't work. I'm trying again with
tabs. See if this makes more sense--Kelley

-----Original Message-----
From: McElwain, Paul Benjamin [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
In my working on the Variations FRBR implementation, as a data modeler, I
was struck by little attention had been paid to the relationships by the
FRBR Report.  I'm not surprised though, treating the relationships at at
"entity" level (having their own attribution) is a more obtuse exercise of
abstraction.

We do treat relationships as attributed "entities", for more information
about the "role" involved. (a creator may be as a composer)

One way to think about the originality of an expression of a work, being the
first ever expression, could be as an attribute of the relationship between
the work and expression.

Paul...

****

Paul,

I agree that from a theoretical perspective it makes a lot of sense to model
the original expression as an attribute of the relationship between the work
and that expression. Or to do what FRBRoo did and make classes like Work
Conception and F28 Expression Creation.

It's not really clear to me that in our particular situation there is any
practical advantage to trying to do that rather than creating a merged
work/primary expression entity.

This has to do with the kind of expressions we're mostly modeling and the
way we're trying to model them. Most of the moving image expressions that
average libraries deal with are defined not by what I think of as bundled
attributes, but are rather a set of independent attributes.

This is unlike the typical music expression, which I think of as a set of
bundled attributes. If you know you have a performance of X work on Y date
in Z venue then, if someone has previously created in an expression record,
you know a number of other things about that expression such as the
composer, performers, and arrangement of the piece without having to
re-verify them again. All those things could productively be stored as a
unit.

This also happens with film with various cuts such as airplane versions or
director's cuts. These do have some associated attributes, notably length,
but also perhaps a different editor. 

For the kinds of unbundled attributes that are common with moving images,
especially DVDs, there are a large number of attributes, like soundtrack and
subtitle languages, accessibility options (captions, audio descriptions),
and aspect ratio, that vary independently. With these kinds of unbundled
expression attributes, a cataloger has to reexamine all of them every time
there is a new manifestation. If there's a change in our knowledge of what
subtitles are on a specific manifestation, it does not have automatic
implications for any other manifestation that might have that same
constellation of options.

The other types of attributes that describe the original expression of a
film are those that never change because they are important facts about the
history of the work that we want to note in conjunction with any future
expression. Many of these are things that RDA says are attributes of
expressions that moving image catalogers would tend to think of as
attributes of works (e.g., casts and costume designers do not vary among
expressions so why record them on every expression?).

In a sense, at least for moving images, the original expression is bit of an
abstraction and in practice we get most of our information from reference
sources. 

At first, I thought we could just model these unbundled attributes of the
expression as attributes of the manifestation/publication since, as I
mentioned above, they have to be verified with every new manifestation
anyway. 

[Work record 1 is linked to Manifestation record 1]

Work record 1			Manifestation record 1
Dracula (1931)			OCLC#: 13754402
Tod Browning			Audio: English			
English


I ran into trouble with manifestations that include more than one work.

Some still work well enough, either because the expression-level information
is all the same or is unknown.

[Work record 1 is linked to Manifestation record 1]
[Work record 2 is also linked to Manifestation record 1]

Work record 1
Ursula (1961)
Lloyd Michael Williams				Manifestation record 1
English						1 DVD video (2005)	
						Experiments in terror
Work record 2					ISBN:     0976523922  
Journey into the Unknown (2002 )		Audio: English
Kerry Laitala
English						



However, in some cases, the expression-level information varies between two
works on a single manifestation/publication. The manifestation below
includes two versions of Dracula, each in its original language. For the
prototype, I just made two different manifestation records, which repeat
most of the same information. That doesn’t seem to me to be a desirable
long-term solution.

[Work record 1 is linked to Manifestation record 1]
[Work record 2 is linked to Manifestation record 2]

Work record 1			Manifestation record 1
Dracula (1931)			1 DVD video (1999)
Tod Browning			ISBN: 0783227450  
English				Audio: English	
				Subtitles:  English or French

Work record 2			Manifestation record 2
Dracula (1931)			1 DVD video (1999)
George Medford		ISBN: 0783227450  
Spanish			Audio: Spanish
				Subtitles:  English or French


So I think we do need the intermediate expression level, but I am not sure
if we need an actual expression record as in:
[Work record 1 is linked to Expression record 1 is linked to Manifestation
record 1]
[Work record 2 is linked to Expression record 2 is linked to Manifestation
record 1]

Work record 1		Expression record 1
Dracula (1931)		Audio: English
Tod Browning		Subtitles:  English or French
English							Manifestation record
1
							1 DVD video (1999)
Work record 2		Expression record 2		ISBN: 0783227450  
Dracula (1931)		Audio: Spanish
George Medford	Subtitles:  English or French
Spanish



Or just independent statements directly linking the work and the
manifestation without a record:
[Work record 1 is linked to various statements are linked to Manifestation
record 1]
[Work record 2 is linked to various statements are linked to Manifestation
record 1] (not sure how clear this one is without the table)

			
Work record 1		Audio: English
Dracula (1931)		
Tod Browning		Subtitles:  English	
English						
			Subtitles:  French	Manifestation record 1
			*************	1 DVD video (1999)
Work record 2		Audio: Spanish		ISBN: 0783227450
Dracula (1931)		
George Medford	Subtitles:  English
Spanish
			Subtitles:  French  


I’m not sure if I explained this very clearly. I have trouble getting my own
head around it sometimes. But FWIW, this is some of the thinking behind why
we did what we did the way we did it. It may in fact be a very film-specific
approach.

Kelley

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager