I want to thank Karen and Wilhelmina especially for continuing this
discussion.

I've never attended a Code4Lib (though I did once offer to help organize
one in Austin). This conversation is making me more willing to spend my own
money to attend one.

Danielle Cunniff Plumer



On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Esmé Cowles <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I think this raises some interesting questions about community and
> appropriate use of the code4lib name.  I just took a look at the code4lib
> reddit and there were comments from a handful of people.  If a handful of
> people want to create some new channel and call it code4lib, is that OK?
>  Who decides that?  Does it matter if it's part of something like reddit,
> that is seriously at odds with our budding anti-harassment policy?
>
> I don't personally use reddit, but I can see the advantages of a threaded
> discussion system, especially for a wide-ranging and branching discussion
> such as this one.  Slashdot is the other full-featured discussion system I
> know, but (as previously mentioned) has similar problems, and would also
> create a new hosting and maintenance burden.  Is there a better alternative?
>
> -Esme
> --
> Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]>
>
> "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters
>  will eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the
>  Internet, we know this is not true." -- Robert Wilensky
>
> On 12/2/2012, at 3:19 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > At the end of this email, is the current default homepage of Reddit at
> this
> > very moment.  I only had to read down to the current 6th most popular
> post
> > - 6th most popular of the ENTIRE REDDIT SITE - which is a man's reference
> > to seeing a highschool classmate on Girls Gone Wild, then masturbating
> such
> > that one arm becomes much bigger than the other (person posted a picture
> of
> > Quagmire from Family Guy with one big arm).  I'm sure the front page will
> > have changed by the time you read this, but just read down and find the
> > example of the moment.  There will be one.
> >
> > Women as sex objects isn't a fringe thing on Reddit.  It's a core part of
> > the service.  Reddit's got lots of porn forums, with 5 digits of users.
> > Sexual images of women is not a fringe activity on Reddit.  It's a core
> > service.  Racism is also prevalent. For example,
> > http://www.reddit.com/r/niggers/ .  At least there are only 4 digits of
> > users, so dedicated racist forums is a fringe activity.  But, why is
> there
> > a dedicated forum at all?
> >
> > It's inappropriate to try and move drafting of an antidiscrimination
> policy
> > to Reddit, alongside forums which are so hateful to the groups which are
> > underrepresented in Code4Lib.
> >
> > -Wilhelmina Randtke
> >
> >
> > --------Begin Clip of Current default Front page of Reddit -------
> > --------Item number 6 refers to masturbating over a female high school
> > classmate ---------
> >
> > 1
> > 2572
> >
> > Taiwan engineers defeat limits of flash
> > memory<http://phys.org/news/2012-12-taiwan-defeat-limits-memory.html>
> > (phys.org <http://www.reddit.com/domain/phys.org/>)
> >
> > submitted 4 hours ago by Maslo55 <http://www.reddit.com/user/Maslo55> to
> > technology <http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/>
> >
> >   - 565 comments<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/145h0c/taiwan_engineers_defeat_limits_of_flash_memory/
> >
> >   - share <http://www.reddit.com/#>
> >
> > 2
> > 2503
> >
> > I'm not sure how to title this.... <http://i.imgur.com/kZBrW.png> (
> > i.imgur.com <http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/>)
> >
> > submitted 3 hours ago by wow050 <http://www.reddit.com/user/wow050> to
> > WTF<http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/>
> >
> >   - 343 comments<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/145imx/im_not_sure_how_to_title_this/
> >
> >   - share <http://www.reddit.com/#>
> >
> > 3
> > 1768
> > <http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg>
> >
> > On a metro bus <http://i.imgur.com/isC9k.jpg>
> > (i.imgur.com<http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/>
> > )
> >
> > submitted 3 hours ago by jjameson18 <
> http://www.reddit.com/user/jjameson18>to
> > atheism <http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/>
> >
> >   - 251 comments<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/145ktv/on_a_metro_bus/>
> >   - share <http://www.reddit.com/#>
> >
> > 4
> > 1828
> > <http://imgur.com/E4KYV>
> >
> > Back in my day we had to work for our games <http://imgur.com/E4KYV> (
> > imgur.com <http://www.reddit.com/domain/imgur.com/>)
> >
> > submitted 4 hours ago by
> > MouthFullOfPubes<http://www.reddit.com/user/MouthFullOfPubes>to
> > gaming <http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/>
> >
> >   - 166 comments<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/145h3h/back_in_my_day_we_had_to_work_for_our_games/
> >
> >   - share <http://www.reddit.com/#>
> >
> > 5
> > 1950
> > <http://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273>
> >
> > When ever I have to get up and mow the lawn<
> http://qkme.me/3s09n5?id=228440273>
> > (qkme.me <http://www.reddit.com/domain/qkme.me/>)
> >
> > submitted 4 hours ago by flabeachbum<
> http://www.reddit.com/user/flabeachbum>to
> > AdviceAnimals <http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/>
> >
> >   - 200 comments<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/145har/when_ever_i_have_to_get_up_and_mow_the_lawn/
> >
> >   - share <http://www.reddit.com/#>
> >
> > 6
> > 1657
> >
> > After finding my old highschool crush on /r/gonewild last night... This
> is
> > exactly how I'm felling this morning. <http://i.imgur.com/Tz3uE.jpg> (
> > i.imgur.com <http://www.reddit.com/domain/i.imgur.com/>)
> >
> > submitted 5 hours ago by
> > DaPolishFarmer<http://www.reddit.com/user/DaPolishFarmer>to
> > funny <http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/>
> >
> >   - 475 comments<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/145fvw/after_finding_my_old_highschool_crush_on/
> >
> >   - share <http://www.reddit.com/#>
> >
> > ------End Reddit clip-------
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> *sigh* From an article about sexual harassment on reddit:
> >>
> >> "Reddit is a notoriously male-dominated forum. According to Google's
> >> DoubleClick Ad Planner, Reddit users in the U.S. <
> https://www.google.com/*
> >> *adplanner/site_profile#**siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%**
> >> 2520Reddit.com&geo=001&lp=**false<
> https://www.google.com/adplanner/site_profile#siteDetails?uid=domain%253A%2520Reddit.com&geo=001&lp=false
> >>
> >> are 72 percent male. Reddit subgroups include r/mensrights and the
> >> misogynistic r/chokeabitch, perhaps in part prompting another popular
> >> thread that asked recently, "Why is Reddit so anti-women?" <
> >> http://www.reddit.com/r/**AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_**
> >> is_reddit_so_antiwomen_**outside_of_rgonewild/<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/x5oac/why_is_reddit_so_antiwomen_outside_of_rgonewild/
> >>
> >> In April, a confused 14-year-old user took to the site in a desperate
> >> attempt to seek advice after she had been sexually assaulted <
> >> http://www.reddit.com/r/**AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_**
> >> think_i_might_have_been_raped_**on_420please_help/<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/smbgv/i_think_i_might_have_been_raped_on_420please_help/
> >>.
> >> Jezebel chronicled the backlash, as commenters attacked the young victim
> >> for overreacting <
> http://jezebel.com/5904323/**reddit-is-officially-the-**
> >> worst-possible-place-for-rape-**victims-to-seek-advice<
> http://jezebel.com/5904323/reddit-is-officially-the-worst-possible-place-for-rape-victims-to-seek-advice
> >>.
> >>
> >>
> >> Given its reputation, the site may seem less than appropriate as a forum
> >> for effective dialogue."[1]
> >>
> >> Which doesn't mean that we should boycott reddit, but it is good to know
> >> the make-up and culture of tools that you use. And I think I have yet to
> >> find a thread on ANY TOPIC on slashdot that doesn't have the word
> "tits" in
> >> it somewhere. I just read the post about the possible move to a $1 coin
> in
> >> the US, and the first post is about strippers. FIRST POST.
> >>
> >> *sigh* Although perhaps the question now is: which will happen first -
> >> acceptance of a $1 coin in the US or a Slashdot thread that isn't
> sexist?
> >>
> >> kc
> >> [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/**2012/07/30/reddit-rapists_n_**
> >> 1714854.html<
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/reddit-rapists_n_1714854.html>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/30/12 9:51 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote:
> >>
> >>> Mark and Karen, yes, the DIY and take-initiative ethos of Code4Lib
> leads
> >>> to a lot of channels. I think this is a good thing as each has its
> >>> strengths.  But it creates chaos without more clarity on what
> platforms are
> >>> best for certain types of communication?
> >>>
> >>> We have similar issues when it comes to our own internal documentation
> >>> attempts at Princeton. Wiki? Git? Git Wiki? IRC? Blogosphere? Reddit?
> >>> Listserv? Twitter? Why should I use any of them?!?
> >>>
> >>> I will say that I like Reddit for potentially controversial or
> >>> philosophical discussions. It's built to keep the conversation on
> track and
> >>> reward the most insightful/best comments with more visibility.
> >>>
> >>> So, anyway, I've posted this discussion on the subreddit:
> >>> http://www.reddit.com/r/**code4lib/comments/1426fn/the_**
> >>> diy_and_takeinitiative_ethos_**of_code4lib/<
> http://www.reddit.com/r/code4lib/comments/1426fn/the_diy_and_takeinitiative_ethos_of_code4lib/
> >
> >>>
> >>> I also added a post on mentorship to the subreddit, since I'm
> >>> particularly interested in that.  Karen, while I think your comments on
> >>> "promotion" and "giving credit" are important, I'm not sure how they
> are
> >>> related to mentorship.  Would love to hear more about that in the
> subreddit.
> >>>
> >>> -Shaun
> >>>
> >>> On 11/30/12 12:30 PM, Mark A. Matienzo wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Wow. We could not have gotten a better follow-up to our long thread
> >>>>> about
> >>>>> coders and non-coders.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't git. I've used it to read code, but never contributed. I even
> >>>>> downloaded a gui with a cute icon that is supposed to make it easy,
> and
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> still is going to take some learning.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So I'm afraid that it either needs to be on a different platform for
> >>>>> editing, OR someone (you know, the famed "someone") is going to have
> to
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> updates for us non-gitters.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Karen, I've added instructions about how to add contributions without
> >>>> knowing Git to the README file:
> >>>> https://github.com/code4lib/**antiharassment-policy/blob/**
> >>>> master/README.md<
> https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/README.md>
> >>>>
> >>>> If you'd like, I'm happy to have feedback as to changes here. A small
> >>>> handful of people have also asked if we could move this to another
> >>>> platform such as the Code4lib wiki. I'd be happy to get feedback if
> >>>> that would be a preferable option.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mark
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Karen Coyle
> >> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
> >> ph: 1-510-540-7596
> >> m: 1-510-435-8234
> >> skype: kcoylenet
> >>
>