LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  December 2012

CODE4LIB December 2012

Subject:

Re: Question abt the code4libwomen idea

From:

Steve Marks <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:56:12 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (86 lines)

>>>> Women have different issues than other groups - even stuff like when you
>>>> have a kid and take a year off, how do you keep up on your mad
>>>> programming skillz?  Or program with pregnancy-brain?
>
> I'll grant you pregnancy-brain is probably only found in women, but
> some men take a year (or more) off to look after a kid and issues
> around that are not unique to women.  It's actually pretty
> disappointing anyone would suggest that only women take child-related
> career breaks nowadays, but I guess this is a global group.

I am another person who doesn't weigh in on threads like this often, but 
I think this bears some comment, and as someone not involved in the main 
strand of discussion, I feel like I can address this as a sidebar 
without derailing the whole conversation. I do have a point, bear with me.

This false equivalency gets bandied around quite a lot in academic 
circles (maybe elsewhere, but I lead a sheltered life). Let me assure 
you that there is a significant difference between what goes on in a 
standard pat leave and what goes on in a standard mat leave. Let us not 
forget that the entire process usually kicks off with a fully formed 
being being removed from the mother's body, either through a bodily 
orifice, or surgically. Either way, it's the mother who has to deal with 
the *very real* medical consequences of this miraculous yet historically 
very deadly event. Quite often, the first part of a mat leave is spent 
just recovering from same. Then of course, there is the fact that you 
have this new life form who pretty much needs to be held by you in order 
to live. In a plurality of cases, this means also being a walking food 
dispenser, but in any case it means close, constant supervision and lots 
of body contact.

I'm not arguing that there aren't many dads who do a great job of child 
rearing, but in your average, everyday, heteronormative context, this by 
default falls to the woman. Bringing it back to the academic context, 
it's not rare at all to see dads on pat leave back in the office working 
at (sometimes, but not always) reduced capacity, sometimes from day two 
or three. I have rarely if ever seen women on mat leave come into the 
office; they are busy dealing with all the issues above, which mat leave 
was invented to help deal with in the first place.

I will not even get into the dynamics of "missing years" in CVs and 
their implications for women who take mat leaves. Suffice to say, this 
is a real problem in the academic world, and tenure committees seem to 
have this weird blind spot around mat leaves.

So to my point: why am I bringing this up in this thread? Because when a 
topic like this comes up in general communities, it often has to be 
explained, just like this. For the marginal participant in a community, 
who might or might not start a discussion around these topics, how much 
less likely would they be to do so if they knew they were going to have 
to explain the particulars of why pregnancy and maternity are hard for 
professionals in our society? I can almost guarantee you this is already 
top of mind -- said participant probably does not want to have to 
unravel this whole messy skein of social and biological implications in 
an email thread with 3500 people. But they might be willing to ask their 
questions in a group that shares a common understanding of the issues 
and can talk about them without having to justify themselves or start 
from first principles. In a way, it's a lot like the reason a community 
like code4lib (or any other community) exists in the first place. 
Otherwise, we could just discuss everything on AllLibrariansEver-L.

Anyway, I hope you don't feel like people are piling on, MJ. I think 
it's a token of respect that every member of the code4lib community has 
for each other that folks *are* making the effort to understand and be 
understood.

Needless to say, I support wholeheartedly the idea of libtechwomen or 
any other venue -- if there are folks who feel it is needed, then that 
needs to be respected.

Steve

-- 



Stephen Marks
Digital Preservation Librarian
Scholars Portal
Ontario Council of University Libraries

[log in to unmask]
416.946.0300

"Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for any man who puts his nose 
out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated 
long ago." --Skírnismál

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager