On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I do, however, want to make one factual point: women, per se, are not a
> minority. In fact, in the general population, we are a slight majority. [1]
> In libraries, of course, we are by far the majority. We are the minority in
> technology in general. It is NOT clear to me (yet) that we are an actual
> minority in library technology -- we simply do not know unless we do a
> count. It may be that male dominance in that area is an assumption rather
> than a fact. I say this as someone who worked in a library technology
> project that, over 20 years, was from 2/3 to 3/4 female, yet the men were
> considered "techies" and the women were... just there, even though they
> were coding and being DBAs, etc. We see what we have trained our eyes and
> minds to see (all of us, not just men).


There is also the question of what things should look like in an ideal
world.What would success look like in the c4l community? The same ratio of
women in tech as in the rest of the library? 50%? What we have now?
Reasonable arguments could be presented that any/all of those are rotten or
OK. It's really about whether the people who are interested feel like they
can do what they need to do.

MJ, i completely understand that past experiences may cause you to be
> skittish -- i deal with the same thing every time i go to a tech event.
>  its hard knowing i'll likely only see only one or two women there and that
> most of the men will only talk to me because they think i'm pretty...
> ...but i also know if i don't keep going to events, then the jerks out
> there
> win.


Maybe it's naiive of me, but it sounds like these events are dominated by
juvenile troglodytes. I'm trying to think of what kind of self respecting
guy would purposely allow himself to be associated with that type
environment. Normal guys don't act or even think like that. Those who have
SO's already shouldn't be hitting on anyone, and those who hit on everyone
because they can't find an SO are outliers. C4l is a tech event. Do women
really get treated that shabbily there?

kyle


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Rosalyn Metz <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> > There are later emails which claim otherwise. twitter.com/libtechwomen
> > and http://libtechwomen.tumblr.com/ don't say either way, as far as
> > I can see (if you'll excuse the pun).  I don't really want to hop on
> > IRC and ask because of past bad experiences with a previous group.
> >
>
> MJ, i completely understand that past experiences may cause you to be
> skittish -- i deal with the same thing every time i go to a tech event.
>  its hard knowing i'll likely only see only one or two women there and that
> most of the men will only talk to me because they think i'm pretty.  in
> fact i can't begin to tell you how many men have lied to me about being
> interested in getting my opinion on a new start up or project they are
> working on, only to find out that the new "project" is getting me to on a
> "date" with them (btw -- if i don't think we're on a date, we're not on a
> date).
>
> but i also know if i don't keep going to events, then the jerks out there
> win.  and i don't want the jerks to win.  so i'm grateful for libtechwomen
> because everyone there (male and female alike) know that behavior like what
> i described above is unacceptable.  and even better, i can whine about that
> jerk to all of the folks in IRC and they will sympathize with me, and maybe
> together we'll come up with a way to tackle the root cause of the problem
> head on.
>
> and i say all of this to point out that I (and many other folks it seems)
> agree with what Tim said:
>
> Each minority faces issues that are unique to their group. Women face their
> own unique issues in the technology landscape.
>