LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  January 2013

CODE4LIB January 2013

Subject:

Re: Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

From:

Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:46 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (113 lines)

On 1/24/13 3:09 PM, Shaun Ellis wrote:
>
>
> To be clear, I am only uncomfortable with "uncomfortable" being used 
> in the policy because I wouldn't support it being there. Differing 
> opinions can make people uncomfortable.  Since I am not going to stop 
> sharing what may be a dissenting opinion, should I be banned?

I can't come up with a word for it that is unambiguous, but I can 
propose a scenario. Imagine a room at a conference full of people -- and 
that there are only a few people of color. A speaker gets up and shows 
or says something racist. It may be light-hearted in nature, but the 
people of color in that almost-all-white audience feel.... 
uncomfortable/insulted/discriminated against.

I had a great example that I can no longer find -- I think it came 
through on Twitter. It showed a fake ad with an image of border patrol 
agents rounding up "illegal aliens" in the desert, and used the ad copy: 
"We can take care of all of your papers" as the ad line for a business 
computing company. It's a "joke" that you can almost imagine someone 
actually doing. Any latinos in the audience would be within their rights 
of jumping up and shouting at the speaker, but in fact sexism and racism 
work precisely because people struggling for equal status are least 
likely to gain that status if they speak up against the status quo. What 
I think we want to change is the social acceptance of speaking up.

There's a difference between an intellectual disagreement (I think the 
earth is round/I think the earth is flat) and insulting who a person is 
as a person. The various "*isms* (sexism, racism, homophobia) have a 
demeaning nature, and there is an inherent lowering of status of the 
targeted group. Booth babes at professional conferences are demeaning to 
women because they present women as non-professional sex objects, and 
that view generally lowers the social and intellectual status of women 
in the eyes of attendees, including the professional women who are 
attending. Because of this, many conferences now ban booth babes. No 
conference has banned discussion of alternate views of the universe.

It's hard to find a balance between being conscious of other peoples' 
sensibilities and creating a chilling effect. The best way, in my mind, 
is to somehow create a culture where someone can say: "you know, I'm not 
ok with that kind of remark" and the person spoken to can respond "OK, 
I'll think about that." If, however, every "I'm not ok" becomes a 
battle, then we aren't doing it right. The reason why it shouldn't be a 
battle is that there is no absolute right or wrong. If someone tells you 
"You're standing too close" then you know you've violated a personal 
space limit that is specific to that person. You don't know why. But 
there's nothing to argue about -- it's how that person feels. All you 
have to do is listen, and be considerate. Eventually we all learn about 
each other. It's an interaction, not an interdiction.

kc


>
> It's an anti-harassment policy, not a comfort policy.  If you want to 
> see something different, it seems that now is the time to step up and 
> change it. :)
>
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf 
>> Of Shaun Ellis
>> Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013 10:38 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)
>>
>>> I am uneasy about coming up with a policy for banning people (from
>>> what?) and voting on it, before it's demonstrated that it's even
>>> needed. Can't we just tackle these issues as they come up, in context,
>>> rather than in the abstract?
>>>
>>
>> I share your unease.  But deciding to situations in context without a 
>> set of guidelines is simply another kind of policy. I'm actually more 
>> uneasy about ambiguity over what is acceptable, and no agreed upon 
>> way to handle it.
>>
>> I don't think the current policy is ready to "go to vote" as it seems 
>> there is still some debate over what it should cover and exactly what 
>> type of behavior it is meant to prevent.
>>
>> I suggest there is a set time period to submit objections as GitHub 
>> issues and resolve them before we vote.  Whatever issues can't get 
>> resolved end up in a branch/fork.  In the end, we vote on each of the 
>> forks, or "no policy at all".
>>
>> Does that sound reasonable?
>>
>> -- 
>> Shaun Ellis
>> User Interace Developer, Digital Initiatives Princeton University 
>> Library
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> P Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>> "The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be 
>> confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use,
>> distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited.  If 
>> you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender
>> by return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together 
>> with all attachments from your system."
>>
>
>

-- 
Karen Coyle
[log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager