Shaun: and yet when people spoke up on this mailing list about not being comfortable with Zoia, part of the response included people telling them essentially "you're spoiling our fun".

It wasn't the only response, and I do note that things seem to be moving to reforming Zoia, which contributes to this group feeling pretty good on the whole. But it was still a *noticeable* response, so messages implying that current culture/procedures are sufficient without continuing discussion seem premature.

Deborah

-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shaun Ellis
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2013 5:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia

Karen, yes, there is a procedure for dealing with speaking up:

// Participants asked to stop any harassing behavior are expected to comply immediately. If a participant engages in harassing behavior, organizers may take any action they deem appropriate, including warning the offender, expulsion from the Code4Lib event, or banning the offender from a chatroom or mailing list. // [1]

It's easier to sense someone's discomfort in person.  But in IRC, there's no way to tell and the issue can only be addressed if someone speaks up.

[1]
https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md

-Shaun

On 1/23/13 10:28 AM, Karen Coyle wrote:
> "Speak up" only works if the speaker is treated with respect. If, 
> instead, the speaker is assailed with a litany of "you shouldn't think 
> that" and "you're spoiling our fun", then I doubt if you will get many 
> speakers.
>
> There needs to be a procedure for dealing with "speaking up" that 
> doesn't resemble a public drubbing. Until that is added into the 
> policy, the policy itself is a false promise and likely to make things 
> worse for anyone speaking up, rather than better.
>
> kc
>
>
> On 1/23/13 5:21 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote:
>> Isn't this why we have an anti-harrassment policy?  Why not hold zoia 
>> (and all bots) accountable to the code of conduct like everyone else?
>>
>> If zoia says something that makes you feel uncomfortable, then speak 
>> up and we will take appropriate measures by removing the plugin or 
>> removing that response from the data set.  Let's not over-think it.
>>
>> -Shaun
>>
>>
>> On 1/22/13 10:56 PM, Bill Dueber wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Genny Engel <[log in to unmask]>
>>>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Guess there's no groundswell of support for firing Zoia and 
>>>> replacing her/it with a GLaDOS irc bot, then?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm in. "We've both said things you're going to regret."
>>>
>>> [GLaDOS <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glados> is the 
>>> really-quite-mean AI from the games Portal and Portal2]
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Genny Engel
>>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Guess there's no groundswell of support for firing Zoia and 
>>>> replacing her/it with a GLaDOS irc bot, then?
>>>>
>>>> *Sigh.*
>>>>
>>>> Genny Engel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On 
>>>> Behalf Of Andromeda Yelton
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 11:30 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Zoia
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, I am both an active #libtechwomen participant and someone who 
>>>> is so thoroughly charmed by zoia I am frequently bothered she isn't 
>>>> right there *in my real life*.  (Yes, I have tried to issue zoia 
>>>> commands during face-to-face conversations with non-Code4Libbers.)
>>>>
>>>> I think a collaboratively maintained bot with a highly open ethos 
>>>> is always going to end up with some things that cross people's 
>>>> lines, and that's an opportunity to talk about those lines and 
>>>> rearticulate our group norms.
>>>>   And to that end, I'm in favor of weeding the collection of 
>>>> plugins, whether because of offensiveness or disuse.  (Perhaps this 
>>>> would be a good use of github's issue tracker, too?)
>>>>
>>>> I also think some sort of 'what's zoia and how can you contribute' 
>>>> link would be useful in any welcome-newbie plugin; it did take me a 
>>>> while to figure out what was going on there.  (Just as it took me 
>>>> the while to acquire the tastes for, say, coffee, bourbon, and blue 
>>>> cheese, tastes which I would now defend ferociously.)
>>>>
>>>> But not having zoia would make me sad.  And defining zoia to be 
>>>> woman-unfriendly, when zoia-lovers and zoia-haters appear to span 
>>>> the gender spectrum and have a variety of reasons (both gendered 
>>>> and
>>>> non) for
>>>> their reactions, would make me sad too.
>>>>
>>>> @love zoia.
>>>>
>>>> Andromeda
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


--
Shaun Ellis
User Interace Developer, Digital Initiatives Princeton University Library


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