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CODE4LIB  May 2013

CODE4LIB May 2013

Subject:

Re: Policies for 3D Printers

From:

Edward Iglesias <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 May 2013 08:36:46 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (266 lines)

> If it is unlimited and free,
> is printing out 100 Hulk statues to sell at a comic convention
> acceptable? How about Barbie dolls to sell at a flea market? Or maybe
> Barbee dolls to side-step trademarks

These are good points however the very ineffectiveness of 3D printers is an
advantage here.  It takes so long to print just one very rough barbie that
it would not make any sense to try and mass produce anything.  These are
one off machines.  Certainly you could have people abuse that but that is a
people issue rather than a tech issue.

Edward Iglesias


On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Marc Comeau <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Kyle:
>
> > why would a library provide 3D printing
> > services when just printing text on paper seems to cause enough grief
> > for many libraries?
>
> Well I guess it depends on why you're struggling with paper printing.  If
> you are having difficulty working with the technology then I would have to
> agree since hobby-grade 3D printing, which is what most libraries are
> deploying, is in its early days and it's still rough around the edges so it
> requires time and attention.  Our primary struggles with paper printing
> have to do with keeping up with the demand.  Our students use it more and
> more every year, but struggling to meet demand is a good problem to have.
>
> > the logical thing for people to do is
> > to print out stuff that they need based on files they just download from
> > the internet. Or make useful things to sell.
>
> Those are two things people would definitely do but there's an important
> one that lies in between.  People make useful things for themselves.  Yes
> we're seeing downloaded iPad stands, we're charging a small amount so it
> wouldn't be 100% profit to sell something they made but I wouldn't be
> shocked to hear that it happened.  But we're seeing a lot of stuff that
> they've created for themselves.  Sometimes for a class, sometimes for
> research, sometimes to solve a problem they have at home.  Personally, I
> just needed a strange piece that could connect my robot's ultrasonic sensor
> to the servo mount with a special gap for the wiring.  It's different for
> everyone which is where the strength of the technology lies.  Everyone can
> tailor their "thing" specifically to their unique needs.  I can come up
> with dozens of other examples that would meet the criteria of being truly
> useful for many libraries but I'm sure I can't cover every situation.
>  Which brings me to David's point.
>
> David:
>
> > That's a question every library will have to answer for themselves.
>
> Absolutely!  I think it's been a great service for us to roll out and we
> really believe we're engaging our students in a new and exciting way.  They
> are creating with us.  For us it's an extension of providing them
> computers, scanners, Photoshop, CAD software and more...  However I'm not
> going to try to persuade those who don't think this fits for their library
> because they might be 100% correct, I don't know what their situation might
> be.
>
> > If it is unlimited and free,
> > is printing out 100 Hulk statues to sell at a comic convention
> > acceptable? How about Barbie dolls to sell at a flea market? Or maybe
> > Barbee dolls to side-step trademarks?
>
> Anything's possible and there were a hundred ways our service could have
> gone (and still might go) sideways, but there was no way to find out
> without trying it.  Pick any technology and you can find lots of ways that
> it can be abused, but what we're finding so far is that people really want
> to create.  The quality of the hobby grade equipment leaves much to be
> desired in terms of a product that you could sell.  We have someone who's
> building a prototype for a commercial product and he has to do a good
> amount of additional work sanding and other prep work for the model to be
> good enough for a prototype.
>
> At the end of the day, for every useful, constructive or educational use
> for the technology that I could come up with someone else could come up
> with a negative use that doesn't serve the cause.  You'll probably only
> find out what your people will do with it a minimum of six months after you
> deploy it.  If you're worried about any kind of abuse you can write policy
> to protect yourself.  We've been very liberal with it, preferring to allow
> the problems that eventually do present themselves to guide policy because
> there was no good information on how people would use them when we started.
>
> Marc Comeau
> Director of Library IT
> Library Information Technology Services
> Dalhousie University
>
> On 2013-05-20, at 5:47 PM, Bigwood, David wrote:
>
> > That's a question every library will have to answer for themselves.
> >
> > For us it makes perfect sense. Our scientists are sending out files to
> > have 3D models of craters. When the price drops enough it will become
> > more cost effective to do that in-house. It will just be an extension of
> > maps and remote sensing data we already have in the collection. I can
> > see a limit being fabrication related to the mission of the Institute,
> > same as the large-format printer.
> >
> > A public library might have other concerns. If it is unlimited and free,
> > is printing out 100 Hulk statues to sell at a comic convention
> > acceptable? How about Barbie dolls to sell at a flea market? Or maybe
> > Barbee dolls to side-step trademarks? Lots of unanswered questions, but
> > each library will have to decide based on local conditions.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > David Bigwood
> > [log in to unmask]
> > Lunar and Planetary Institute
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> > Kyle Banerjee
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:15 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Policies for 3D Printers
> >
> > This is a bit off topic, but why would a library provide 3D printing
> > services when just printing text on paper seems to cause enough grief
> > for many libraries?
> >
> > Don't get me wrong. I can see why people are interested in this. If I
> > had access to one (i.e. I weren't too lazy/cheap to use available
> > services), I'd fabricate all kinds of specialized tools and gizmos.
> >
> > If 3D printing is provided gratis, the logical thing for people to do is
> > to print out stuff that they need based on files they just download from
> > the internet. Or make useful things to sell. I suspect this is not an
> > issue yet because 3D printing isn't in most peoples' consciousness yet.
> >
> > The connection between fabrication and library services is tenuous at
> > best.
> > May as well loan tools since that would be useful to many people and
> > would strongly appeal to demographic groups that historically don't
> > frequent libraries.
> >
> > kyle
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Marc Comeau <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry I'm a little late to the discussion.
> >>
> >> We've had a 3D printer deployed in our biggest library for about a
> >> year now and we've had to discuss the gun issue at length.  Thankfully
> >
> >> for us, the RCMP in Canada came out with a pretty clear statement on
> >> the fact that unless you have the proper registration and license, you
> >
> >> can't do it in Canada.  Since the library will never hold those
> >> licenses or registration, we can't legally do it.
> >>
> >> While we haven't drawn up any formal policy yet, the quiet line in the
> >
> >> sand for us has been, "if it's illegal, we'll do it, if it's illegal
> >> we won't"  Our University Librarian is the kind of person who will
> >> take a stand to defend library principles if there's anything in that
> >> messy grey area so it's a reasonable standing policy for the time
> > being.
> >>
> >> We're rolling out to three other libraries on campus now though so
> >> we're likely to be writing something up very soon.  To date though,
> >> after about
> >> 300 print jobs submitted, the most dangerous thing anyone has sent was
> >
> >> a mini crossbow.  The tip of the arrows were surprisingly sharp and it
> >
> >> could probably have slightly pierced skin if equipped with the right
> > rubber band.
> >> That said, it was clearly a novelty item and since our users are
> >> legally considered adults, they carry a good amount of responsibility
> > on their own.
> >> It didn't even raise any questions from our front-line staff who do
> >> err on the side of caution since we're dealing with something new and
> > unknown.
> >>
> >> We're seeing a lot of self-created models with a good amount of
> >> Thingiverse material as well.  Haven't really bumped into any serious
> >> copyright/patent/trademark issues yet either though we'll be
> >> discussing that over the next month or two.
> >>
> >> Marc Comeau
> >> Director of Library IT
> >> Library Information Technology Services Dalhousie University
> >>
> >> On 2013-05-20, at 9:39 AM, Edward Iglesias wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thank you all for this great feedback.  I imagine we will probably
> >>> not charge at the beginning and change as needed.  My Director's
> >>> bigger
> >> concern
> >>> is the whole "are they gonna print a gun with that" question.
> >>> Luckily we have a student handbook to point to.
> >>>
> >>> Edward Iglesias
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Nate Hill
> >>> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> If fines, fee structures, and social contracts in community spaces
> >> interest
> >>>> you, watch Clay Shirky's TED talk about cognitive surplus, and
> >>>> listen to the story about day care centers and late pickup fees.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=qu7ZpWecIS8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D
> >> qu7ZpWecIS8
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sunday, May 19, 2013, BWS Johnson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Salvete!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Libraries charge to lend books.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Some, by no means all. It's also generally limited to newer
> >>>> materials.
> >>>>> It's universally stupid to do this, in my opinion. The folks that
> >>>>> can
> >> pay
> >>>>> are already buying copies, and we're hurting the patrons that
> >>>>> can't
> >> pay.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Late fines are almost universal, and lost items will result in a
> >>>>>> charge for replacement costs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   What are we getting for our charges? Is this go away mentality
> >>>>> worth it? Is this helping or hurting us in the relevancy arena?
> >>>>> It's
> >> definitely
> >>>>> hurting in the fundraising department, which is precisely where
> >>>>> it's
> >>>> meant
> >>>>> to help. Every budget I've seen has not netted enough in charging
> >>>>> for extras to offset the actual costs they're seeking to cover. So
> >
> >>>>> with
> >> that
> >>>> in
> >>>>> mind, why are we doing this? Our patrons rightfully see these as
> >> nuisance
> >>>>> fees. If we're doing it to avoid abuse, which is why I assume a
> >>>>> lot of these are implemented, there are usually better ways to go
> > about that.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Brooke
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Nate Hill
> >>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>> http://4thfloor.chattlibrary.org/
> >>>> http://www.natehill.net
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>

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