LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  November 2013

CODE4LIB November 2013

Subject:

Re: rdf serialization

From:

Robert Sanderson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:44:50 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

Yes, I'm going to get sucked into this vi vs emacs argument for nostalgia's
sake.


From the linked, very outdated article:

> In fact, as far as I know I've never used an RDF application, nor do I
know of any that make me want to use them. > So what's wrong with this
picture?

a) Nothing. You would never know if you've used a CORBA application
either. Or (insert infrastructure technology here) application.
b) You've never been to the BBC website? You've never used anything that
pulls in content from remote sites? Oh wait, see (a).
c) I've never used a Topic Maps application. (and see (a))

> I find most existing RDF/XML entirely unreadable
Patient: Doctor, Doctor it hurts when I use RDF/XML!
Doctor: Don't Do That Then. (aka #DDTT)

Already covered in this thread. I'm a strong proponent of JSON-LD.

> I think that when we start to bring on board metadata-rich knowledge
monuments such as WorldCat ...

See VIAF in this thread. See, if you must, BIBFRAME in this thread.

There /are/ challenges with RDF, not going to argue against that. And in
fact I /have/ recently argued for it:
    http://www.cni.org/news/video-rdf-failures-linked-data-letdowns/

But for the vast majority of cases, the problems are solved (JSON-LD) or no
one cares any more (httpRange14). Named Graphs (those quads used by
crazies you refer to) solve the remaining issues, but aren't standard yet.
 They are, however, cleverly baked into JSON-LD for the time that they are.


On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Alexander Johannesen <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Ross Singer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > This is definitely where RDF outclasses almost every alternative*,
>
> Having said that, there's tuples of many kinds, it's only that the
> triplet is the most used under the W3C banner. Many are using to a
> more expressive quad, a few crazies , for example, even though that

ad hominem? really? Your argument ceased to be valid right about here.

> may or may not be a better way of dealing with it. In the end, it all
> comes down to some variation over frames theory (or bundles); a
> serialisation of key/value pairs with some ontological denotation for
> what the semantics of that might be.

Except that RDF follows the web architecture through the use of URIs for
everything. That is not to be under-estimated in terms of scalability and
long term usage.


> But wait, there's more! We haven't touched upon the next layer of the
> cake; OWL, which is, more or less, an ontology for dealing with all
> things knowledge and web. And it kinda puzzles me that it is not more
> often mentioned (or used) in the systems we make. A lot of OWL was
> tailored towards being a better language for expressing knowledge
> (which in itself comes from DAML and OIL ontologies), and then there's
> RDFs, and OWL in various formats, and then ...

Your point? You don't like an ontology? #DDTT


> Complexity. The problem, as far as I see it, is that there's not
> enough expression and rigor for the things we want to talk about in
> RDF, but we don't want to complicate things with OWL or RDFs either.

That's no more a problem of RDF than any other system.

> And then there's that tedious distinction between a web resource and
> something that represents the thing "in reality" that RDF skipped (and
> hacked a 304 "solution" to). It's all a bit messy.

That RDF skipped? No, *RDF* didn't skip it nor did RDF propose the *303*
solution.
You can use URIs to identify anything.

The 303/httprange14 issue is what happens when you *dereference* a URI that
identifies something that does not have a digital representation because
it's a real world object. It has a direct impact on RDF, but came from the
TAG not the RDF WG.

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/httpRange-14/2007-05-31/HttpRange-14

And it's not messy, it's very clean. What it is not, is pragmatic. URIs are
like kittens ... practically free to get, but then you have a kitten to
look after and that costs money. Thus doubling up your URIs is increasing
the number of kittens you have. [though likely not, in practice, doubling
the cost]

> > * Unless you're writing a parser, then having a kajillion serializations
> > seriously sucks.
> Some of us do. And yes, it sucks. I wonder about non-political
> solutions ever being possible again ...

This I agree with.

Rob

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager