This thread is getting interesting! A few comments, inline.
Joe Hourcle wrote:
> On Mar 25, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>
>> Come to think of it, there's nothing there to frame the intent and scope of the book - is it aimed at librarians who write code, or at librarians who are trying to guide people to topical material?
> An excellent question, so I'm cc'ing the editors for the book, so maybe they can answer.
>
> (I suspect by the languages listed that it's the first one; the second would be so broad that it might not be useful ... I'm having a difficult time coming up with justifications for using Logo, IDL or Brainfuck in a library [1]). And the mention of "how a specific language can be used to enhance library services and resources" might be a clue, too)
>
Nice. I've always wanted to find a use for Brainfuck :-)
>> Either way, it sure seems like at least three framing topics are missing:
>> - a general overview of programming language types and characteristics (i.e., context for reading the other chapters)
>> - a history of programming languages (the family tree, if you will)
>> - programming environments, platforms, tools, libraries and repositories - a language's ecosystem probably influences choice of language use as much as the language itself
> Agreed on all three ... in some cases, the main justification for using a language is the ecosystem (eg, CPAN for Perl).
>
> In some cases, it might be worth just assuming a library -- eg, do you want to teach people (ECMA|J(ava)?|Live)Script, or just assume jQuery, so they can get up to speed faster? (yes, I know, you then bring in the jQuery vs. MooTools vs. every other JS library, but I think it's safe to say that jQuery is a defacto standard these days)
Maybe PhoneGap for mobile apps.
>
>
>> - "non-language languages" - e.g., sql/nosql, spreadsheet macros and other platforms that one builds on
> Agreed on the need for SQL. NoSQL isn't really a language on its own; I'm not aware of any specific general API, so I'd go with XPath & XSLT for discussing non-relational data. Macro languages would be useful (and I'd assume the 'Basic' proposal was actually for VBA, so you could create more complex MS Access databases)
Maybe CQL as well as SQL, and XQUERY for talking to XML databases.
I'd kind of differ on "NoSQL isn't really a language on it's own" - I'm
thinking, in particular, of CouchDB, CouchApps, and mashups composed
from RESTful APIs.
Maybe, this is more aptly framed as programming paradigms other than
traditional languages. God knows that an awful lot of useful
information is published in the form of mashups that mine data from
various databases and present that data on maps, or as other forms of
visualizations. And then there's the whole area of finding and mining
databases, for input into other tools (e.g., importing census data into
spreadsheets). This strikes me as more and more of what research
librarian do, and very little of it is done with traditional programming
languages, except maybe a little javascript glue.
And, as I type this, I realize that mathematical and statistical
languages probably have a place in such a book - SPSS, MATLAB, MACSYMA,
Mathematica, R, and so forth.
- Miles
>
> -Joe
>
>
> [1] okay, maybe Logo in the context of MakerSpaces, but still nothing on the other two.
>
> ps. I haven't trimmed this, so the editors can see some of the other comments made.
>
>
>
>> Miles Fidelman
>> p.s. I wrote a book for ALA Editions, they were great to work with. The acquisitions editor I worked with is now a Sr. Editor, so I expect they're still good folks to work with.
>>
>> Jason Bengtson wrote:
>>> I'm also surprised not to see anything about the sql/nosql end of the equation. Integral to a lot of apps and tools . . . at least from a web perspective (and probably from others too).
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Jason Bengtson, MLIS, MA
>>> Head of Library Computing and Information Systems
>>> Assistant Professor, Graduate College
>>> Department of Health Sciences Library and Information Management
>>> University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center
>>> 405-271-2285, opt. 5
>>> 405-271-3297 (fax)
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://library.ouhsc.edu
>>> www.jasonbengtson.com
>>>
>>> NOTICE:
>>> This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by replying to the original message at the listed email address. Thank You.
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2014, at 7:39 AM, Ian Ibbotson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Going in the other direction from cobol and fortran -Fair warning - Putting
>>>> on java evangelist hat- :) I wonder if it might be worth suggesting to the
>>>> authors that they change java into "JVM Languages" and cover off Java,
>>>> Scala, Groovy,...(others). We've had lots of success in the GoKB(
>>>> http://gokb.org/) and KB+(https://www.jisc-collections.ac.uk/News/kbplus/)
>>>> Knowledge Base projects using groovy on grails - Essentially all the
>>>> pre-built libraries and enterprise gubbins of Java, but with a more
>>>> ruby-esq idiom making it much more readable / less verbose / more
>>>> expressive, and integrating nicely with all that existing enterprise
>>>> infrastructure to boot.
>>>>
>>>> The use of embedded languages in JVMs (Including javascript) means that the
>>>> use of Domain Specific Languages are becoming more and more widespread
>>>> under JVMs, and this seems (To me) an area where there is some real
>>>> advantage to having practitioners with real coding skills - Maybe not the
>>>> hardcore systems development stuff but certainly ability to tune and
>>>> configure software. Expressing things like business rules in DSLs (EG How
>>>> to choose a supplier for an item, or how to deduplicate a title) gives
>>>> librarians an opportunity to tune the behaviour of systems dynamically
>>>> without system level changes.
>>>>
>>>> Owen (Who's always lurking around here somewhere) wears a (technical)
>>>> librarians hat and often dives into KB+ and GoKB code base to give me an
>>>> idea of whats going wrong along with bug reports, sometimes with a fix
>>>> attached. I think this kind of collaboration, where systems librarians /
>>>> end user representatives are able to review and comment on code is
>>>> incredibly powerful and it's certainly served us well in our library
>>>> projects.
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought :)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ian.
>>>>
>>>> Ian Ibbotson
>>>> Director
>>>> Knowledge Integration Ltd
>>>> 35 Paradise Street, Sheffield. S3 8PZ
>>>> T: 0114 273 8271
>>>> M: 07968 794 630
>>>> W: http://www.k-int.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 25 March 2014 12:22, Miles Fidelman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Visual Basic is still going strong.
>>>>> Conspicuous by their absence: COBOL and Fortran - also still going strong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Miles Fidelman
>>>>>
>>>>> Roy Tennant wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Basic? Seriously? I mean, the very first language I learned, in the early
>>>>>> 1980s, was BASIC. But come on. If you can find a person to write the
>>>>>> chapter I want to take them out behind the barn and, well, do them some
>>>>>> serious damage. Interpret that however you wish.
>>>>>> Roy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Ashley Blewer <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> Passing this along because it seems relevant to the interests of many on
>>>>>>> this list!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See ya tomorrow or on the internet,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Ashley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fwd:
>>>>>>> This is a call for book chapters for A Librarian’s Introduction to
>>>>>>> Programming Languages to be published by ALA/ Neal-Schuman Publishing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This book will look at a variety of programming languages with the intent
>>>>>>> to familiarize readers with the reasons for using each language. The book
>>>>>>> will cover practical, real world examples to illustrate how a specific
>>>>>>> language can be used to enhance library services and resources.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The target audience includes current practitioners, administrators,
>>>>>>> educators, and students.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some potential topics to be included in the book are below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ● Basic
>>>>>>> ● C#
>>>>>>> ● Java
>>>>>>> ● Javascript
>>>>>>> ● Perl
>>>>>>> ● Python
>>>>>>> ● Ruby
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are also interested in other topics. For more information email the
>>>>>>> editors:
>>>>>>> Ron Brown [log in to unmask] and Beth Thomsett-Scott
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apologies for cross posting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please feel free to share this announcement with other listservs and
>>>>>>> interested parties.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ashley Blewer
>>>>>>> Fox Movietone Collection Project Cataloging Manager
>>>>>>> Moving Image Research Collections
>>>>>>> University of South Carolina
>>>>>>> 803.403.5013
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>>> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
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