Not to be a noodg (sp?) - touch devices that use a stylus often support hover.  Wacom tablets, Android tablets (e.g. Samsung Notes), the old PalmOS devices, etc.   Of course it's a small market segment.  <relurk>


-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Rochkind
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 6:17 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav

Mouse hover is not available to anyone using a touch device rather than a mouse, as well as being problematic for keyboard access.

While there might be ways to make the on-hover UI style keyboard accessible (perhaps in some cases activating on element focus in addition toon hover), there aren't really any good ones I can think for purely touch devices (which don't really trigger focus state either).

An increasing amount of web use, of course, is mobile touch devices, and probably will continue to be and to increase for some time, including on library properties.

So I think probably on-hover UI should simply be abandoned at this point, even if some people love it, it will be inaccessible to an increasing portion of our users with no good accomodations.

Jonathan

On 9/17/14 4:25 PM, Jesse Martinez wrote:
> On the same token, we're making it a policy to not use mouse hover 
> over effects to display database/asset descriptions in LG2 until this 
> can become keyboard accessible. This is a beloved feature from LG1 so 
> I'm hoping SpringShare read my pestering emails about this...
>
> Jesse
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Brad Coffield 
> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> Johnathan,
>>
>> That point is well taken. Accessibility, to me, shouldn't be a 
>> tacked-on "we'll do the best we can" sort of thing. It's an essential 
>> part of being a library being open to all users. Unfortunately I know 
>> our site has a lot of work to be done regarding accessibility. I'll 
>> also pay attention to that when/if I make mods to the v2 templates.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:49 PM, Jonathan LeBreton 
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I might mention here that we (Temple University)  found LibGuides 
>>> 2.0  to offer some noteworthy improvements in section 508 accessibility
>>> when compared with version 1.0.   Accessibility is a particular point of
>>> concern for the whole institution as we look across the city, state, 
>>> and country at other institutions that have been called out and 
>>> settled with various disability advocacy groups.
>>> So we moved to v. 2.0 during the summer in order to have those 
>>> improvements in place for the fall semester, as well as to get the 
>>> value from some other developments in v. 2.0 that benefit all customers.
>>>
>>> When I see email on list about making  modifications to templates 
>>> and such, it gives me a bit of concern on this score that by doing 
>>> so,  one might easily begin to make the CMS framework for content less accessible.
>>>    I thought I should voice that.    This is not to say that one shouldn't
>>> customize and explore enhancements etc.,  but one should do so with some
>>> care if you are operating with similar mandates or concerns.    Unless I
>> am
>>> mistaken, several of the examples noted are now throwing 508 errors 
>>> that are not in the out-of-the box  LibGuide templates and which are 
>>> not the result of an individual content contributor/author inserting "bad stuff"
>>> like images without alt tags.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan LeBreton
>>> Senior Associate University Librarian
>>> Editor:  Library & Archival Security Temple University Libraries 
>>> Paley M138,  1210 Polett Walk, Philadelphia PA 19122
>>> voice: 215.204.8231
>>> fax: 215.204.5201
>>> mobile: 215.284.5070
>>> email:  [log in to unmask]
>>> email:  [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf 
>>> Of Cindi Blyberg
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:03 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav
>>>
>>> Hey everyone!
>>>
>>> Not to turn C4L into Support4LibGuides, but... :)
>>>
>>> The infrastructure for all the APIs is in place; currently, the 
>>> Guides
>> API
>>> and the Subjects API are functioning.  Go to Tools > API > Get 
>>> Guides to see the general structure of the URL.  Replace "guides" with "subjects"
>> to
>>> retrieve your subjects.  You will need your LibGuides site ID, which 
>>> you can get from the LibApps Dashboard screen.
>>>
>>> Word is that it will not take long to add other API calls on the 
>>> back
>> end;
>>> if you need these now, please do email [log in to unmask] and 
>>> reference this conversation.
>>>
>>> As for v1, we are planning on supporting it for 2 more years--that 
>>> said, we would never leave anyone hanging, so if it takes longer 
>>> than that to
>> get
>>> everyone moved over, we're ready for that.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>   -Cindi
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Nadaleen F Tempelman-Kluit <
>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all-
>>>> While we're on the topic of LibGuides V2, when will the "GET subjects"
>>>> API (and other API details) be in place? We're in a holding pattern 
>>>> until we get those details and we've not been able to get any 
>>>> timeline as to when those assets will be in place. So we're 
>>>> deciding between building out LibGuides CMS "Global" landing pages 
>>>> using the V1 platform, or waiting until some future date which, 
>>>> very soon, will mean abandoning this project till next summer. If 
>>>> we go the former route, it would also be great to know how long V1 will be supported.
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Cindi Blyberg 
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Michael Schofield 
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Q1. How complicated is it to change all 3 column guides to a
>>>>> single-column
>>>>>> left/right-nav layout?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A little. You can force the entire group [or all groups] to use a
>>>> single
>>>>>> template, which is a huge time saver, except your guides' middle 
>>>>>> and
>>>>> right
>>>>>> columns will be in "hidden" columns rather than forced to 
>>>>>> collapse
>>>> into a
>>>>>> single column. This was pretty confusing at first. We were afraid 
>>>>>> we actually lost content during the migration. You will need to 
>>>>>> manually
>>>> hit
>>>>>> every guide and change the layout to single-column, but that's 
>>>>>> just a
>>>>> click
>>>>>> of the button. If you have 400+ guides, though, that's 400+ clicks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Alas, yes. Once we realized this was happening, our devs hashed it 
>>>>> out
>>>> and
>>>>> will be rolling out a fix to the migration script so that this 
>>>>> won't
>>>> happen
>>>>> again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Q2. Three-columns or single column?
>>>>>> Single column. Users scan, and they scan the top and left-most 
>>>>>> portions
>>>>> of
>>>>>> the screen. Anything in the middle and to the right is lost.
>>>>>> Also,
>>>> three
>>>>>> columns on a responsive site is a little weird, because content 
>>>>>> is
>>>> pretty
>>>>>> squishy; on tablets you might have pretty narrow left and right
>>>> columns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, when you view a 3-column layout on a smaller screen, it 
>>>>> scales down to a single column.  If you're seeing otherwise, can 
>>>>> you send us
>>>> some
>>>>> examples in case this is a bug we need to fix?  Thanks. :)  The 
>>>>> key here, of course, is to have the most important information in 
>>>>> the left-hand column, and not to have too many boxes on a single page.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Q5. Has anyone split the main content column into two smaller
>>> columns?
>>>>>> LG2 makes it crazy easy to change number and percentage-based 
>>>>>> widths of the columns. So you could still use the 
>>>>>> tabs-across-the-top template
>>>> and
>>>>>> create a little 33% wide left "sidebar" column and a 66% wide 
>>>>>> right
>>>> main
>>>>>> column.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> One slight caution here:  if you add a second content column to a
>>>> side-nav
>>>>> layout and the guide author wants to display nav pills for the 
>>>>> page's boxes, only the boxes from the first content column will be 
>>>>> displayed as pills. This is by design, but we've filed it as a 
>>>>> known
>>> issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On 
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>>>> Blake Galbreath
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 6:37 PM
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have always thought that left-nav was the UX standard for
>>>> left-to-right
>>>>>> languages (as opposed to Arabic, eg.: http://www.france24.com/ar/
>> ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I feel that right-nav makes more sense across the 
>>>>>> board,
>>>> due
>>>>>> to the fact that it is less distance to travel for right-handed
>>> people.
>>>>> But
>>>>>> the convention seems pretty set in stone. I am also not sure how 
>>>>>> screen readers deal with right-nav - although i am guessing that 
>>>>>> there is no problem there programming wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blake
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Brad Coffield < 
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Benjamin: "Unfortunately we have authors who want *three* 
>>>>>>> columns
>>>> plus
>>>>>>> left-nav..." LOL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Margaret: Love the floating nav on that page. It's exciting that
>>>> we'll
>>>>>>> be able to leverage Bootstrap with our guides now. Moving the 
>>>>>>> entire library website to libguides CMS is looking more and more
>>> promising.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some more thoughts:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm no UX expert but is it generally agreed that left-nav is the 
>>>>>>> much better choice? It seems like it to me. Given current web 
>>>>>>> wide conventions etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One big issue to switching to left-nav in v2 is the amount of 
>>>>>>> work it's going to take everyone to convert all guides to the 
>>>>>>> new
>>> layout.
>>>>>>> Which is one of those things that both shouldn't matter (when 
>>>>>>> looking at it in a principledness way - that is, "Whatever is 
>>>>>>> best for the patrons! No matter
>>>>>>> what!) but also does matter (in a practical way - that is, "OMG 
>>>>>>> we
>>>> are
>>>>>>> all so busy being awesome").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But part of me, when looking at other people's guides and my 
>>>>>>> own, wonders if three columns isn't just a little TOO much for
>> the
>>> user.
>>>>>>> How is one supposed to scan the page? What's the prioritized 
>>>>>>> information? For a couple years now I've been eschewing three 
>>>>>>> columns whenever possible. Do others agree that three columns 
>>>>>>> can be info
>>>>>> overload?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Benjamin Florin < 
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We've been tinkering with our LibGuides template in preparation 
>>>>>>>> for an eventual redesign of our site and guides,
>>> e.g.:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      http://libguides.bc.edu/libraries/babst/staff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of our guide authors weren't happy with the LibGuides 
>>>>>>>> side-navigation's single-column limitation, so we made our own 
>>>>>>>> template, moved {{guide_nav}} off to a left column, and wrote 
>>>>>>>> our own styles to
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> the default top-nav display as left-nav. We've found that a
>>>>>>>> 50/50
>>>> or
>>>>>>> 75/25
>>>>>>>> split next to the left nav looks pretty good.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately we have authors who want *three* columns plus
>>>>> left-nav...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In general the LibGuides templating has felt modern and easy to
>>>> work
>>>>>>> with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Brad Coffield < 
>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm finally diving into our Libguides v2 migration and I'm 
>>>>>>>>> wondering if anyone would be willing to share their 
>>>>>>>>> experience/choices regarding templating. (Or even some
>>>>>>>>> code!)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking left-nav is the way to go. Has anyone split the 
>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>> column into two smaller columns? Done that with a 
>>>>>>>>> column-width-spanning
>>>>>>>> box
>>>>>>>>> atop the main content area? Any other neato templates ideas?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We are in the process of building a "style guide" for all 
>>>>>>>>> libguides
>>>>>>>> authors
>>>>>>>>> to use. And also some sort of peer-review process to help 
>>>>>>>>> enforce the
>>>>>>>> style
>>>>>>>>> guide. I'm thinking we are going to want to restrict all 
>>>>>>>>> authors to left-nav templates but perhaps the ideal solution 
>>>>>>>>> would be to require left-nav of all but to have a variety of 
>>>>>>>>> custom left-nav templates to choose from.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts are much appreciated!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brad
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Brad Coffield, MLIS
>>>>>>>>> Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis 
>>>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>>>> 814-472-3315
>>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Brad Coffield, MLIS
>>>>>>> Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian Saint Francis 
>>>>>>> University
>>>>>>> 814-472-3315
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Blake L. Galbreath
>>>>>> Systems Librarian
>>>>>> Eastern Oregon University
>>>>>> One University Boulevard
>>>>>> La Grande, OR 97850
>>>>>> (541) 962.3017
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nadaleen Tempelman-Kluit
>>>> Head, User Experience (UX) Department Bobst Library, New York 
>>>> University [log in to unmask]
>>>> (212) 998-2469
>>>> @nyulibraries
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brad Coffield, MLIS
>> Assistant Information and Web Services Librarian
>> Saint Francis University
>> 814-472-3315
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>
>
>