[like]  Weston, Eleanor (NIH/NIEHS) [C] reacted to your message:
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From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Charlow, Aurora <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, 09 July 2026 18:07:03
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] [External] Re: [CODE4LIB] llm technology is especially useful

Eric's entire framing was evangelistic from the subject on. Yes, he explained his process (which not everyone in this thread has done), which is appreciated and the reason I didn't say anything earlier, but the entire framing is that of a persuasive argument to accomplish something, which, as David says, has little to no practical value to any of us. It might be useful for someone outside of libraries seeking to learn more about them without having to debase themselves by actually talking to a librarian. I genuinely have seen some fairly interesting LLM based projects discussed here, all of them more useful and intriguing without being framed as persuasive essays.

Additionally, if anything, "Library Land" has been excessively welcoming and enthusiastic to LLMs. One only needs to read the last few months of C4L topics to see that. Or read the ALA guidelines. Or any of the numerous studies around librarians and AI literacy. Or look up the workshops about ethical use of AI being taught at libraries all over the country. So, when someone confidently addresses over 3,000 people, and their argument starts from a demonstrable falsehood - yeah, we're going to get a bit tetchy.

I explained the reticence to use AI that does exist, in response to Eric's question (bad faith as it may have been) in great detail last night and now have been accused of "stifling discussion" when I delivered a perfectly reasonable answer in response to the entire listserv being scolded because someone unsubscribed.

One more interesting thing I can throw into this, since you mention Eric being a C4L member since 2003 - this actually perfectly follows demographic lines. Overwhelmingly, the younger a professional is, the less they want anything to do with AI. https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2Fai-artificial-intelligence%2F920401%2Fgen-z-ai&data=05%7C02%7Celeanor.weston%40nih.gov%7C19df5d33744543a4c72c08dedde4e61b%7C14b77578977342d58507251ca2dc2b06%7C0%7C0%7C639192172348444490%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nopvergXlLTGWcfuvHPuz4GgrNo%2FPk6JQjvkIT8yvVY%3D&reserved=0<https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/920401/gen-z-ai>

That metric probably has something to do with us being acutely aware that the people developing the AI want to replace us. The closer someone is to retirement and the more senior their position, the less they have to worry about. They already have the skills we're being told to outsource to LLMs.

That's actually most of the reason I'm bothering to respond again, because I'm not going to be cowed by someone pulling rank. Younger workers have just as much of a right as anyone to contribute to these discussions.

Aurora
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From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of RD B <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2026 01:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] [External] Re: [CODE4LIB] llm technology is especially useful

I think the negative reactions to the original post are so strong because
there is no demonstrated value.  Most of us can write a quick description
of this listserv, MARC, and open source.  And if we really needed word
counts we can do it with a 10 line nltk script.  If you're using this kind
of approach on a corpus you don't have expertise with, you need an expert
to verify it.  The verification tax with LLM use is widely discussed.
Glossing over the massive environmental, socio-economic, intellectual,
legal and moral problems it creates or exacerbates as if they couldn't
possibly contribute to the hesitation is extremely concerning at best.
(And say goodbye to serendipitous discovery.)

As to the original question of why people are hesitant to use these tools,
the Leiden Declaration is a relevant read.  It is from a group of
mathematicians, but many of their expressed concerns, (convincing but
incorrect output, undermining the traditional systems of attribution,
incentivizing the use of AI for its own sake, the increasing role corporate
decision-making is playing in our discipline,) easily translate to
Librarianship.

https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fleidendeclaration.ai%2F&data=05%7C02%7Celeanor.weston%40nih.gov%7C19df5d33744543a4c72c08dedde4e61b%7C14b77578977342d58507251ca2dc2b06%7C0%7C0%7C639192172348468090%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yuVnN5X38vPxD2zY6ldNY0K6gWPZ0rJNvXl6xcG7BRk%3D&reserved=0<https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fleidendeclaration.ai%2F&data=05%7C02%7Celeanor.weston%40nih.gov%7C19df5d33744543a4c72c08dedde4e61b%7C14b77578977342d58507251ca2dc2b06%7C0%7C0%7C639192172348481916%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l0qJa8WP9KFskkDuGghxwn58Gbkw2%2FFq08Kn7UYYr3k%3D&reserved=0><https://leidendeclaration.ai/>

David

On Thu, Jul 9, 2026 at 1:39 PM Tim Spalding <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> *"But coming in to assert that 'LLM technology is especially useful' as if
> we don't hear it from every angle, every single day, is unnecessary and
> demeaning."*
>
> Eric, who has been involved with Code4Lib from its start in 2003, did not
> hop in to make a statement and leave. He did the things you asked for. He
> described his project, named the models he used. Laid out his workflow. He
> gave costs, details of the data, quoted his actual outputs, added a
> footnote. You asked that people "unveil new tools, talk about processes"
> and he did exactly that. Very few posts here go into the detail he did.
>
> After talking about what he did, how he did it, and how it fared, yes, he
> asked a question on many of our minds: Why are libraries so often hostile
> to LLMs? This "irritating time waster" shall "broadcast his insecurity" by
> suggesting that the vociferousness of the replies demonstrate the relevance
> of his question.
>
> Tim Spalding
> Founder, LibraryThing
>


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R. David Beales - [log in to unmask] - 732-299-0390
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