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I find this debate interesting. In the regular world, whenever there is a revolution somewhere, the new government typically spends insane amounts of energy renaming streets and other symbols. Anyone that's been involve in a website design knows that you'll spend an eternity in font and color hell while elements in desperate need of attention (structure, functionality, etc) are ignored. At the end of the day, it is the substance of code4lib that makes it what it is. Logos, committees, and the like are relevant, but it's important not to get too caught up in internal dynamics. I suspect that hardly anyone will notice whether the code4lib logo is totally fly or if it sucks. Consider ACM. The name is an anachronism. The logo is as boring as it gets. Yet they do all right. However, symbols and external perceptions are sometimes important. If that weren't true, bottled water companies wouldn't be nearly as successful as they are. kyle