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> I know that a large percentage of the data in our > MARC records is not being used for finding/gathering > or even display, so in that case, what good is it? This is, of course, a chicken and egg thing. The reason why a lot of MARC data remains inconsistent is precisely because it is not being used for finding or display. Anyone who has worked with a faceted search application has seen this in action. As soon as you aggregate subject headings, genre designations, etc., into facets you begin to see all kinds of data problems that you never noticed before because they are scattered among thousands of records that previously could only be viewed individually. Of course, fixing bad or inconsistent data is probably an order of magnitude easier than adding data to records after the fact. --Dave ================== David Walker Library Web Services Manager California State University http://xerxes.calstate.edu ________________________________________ From: Code for Libraries [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Alex Dolski [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:38 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Something completely different I think Dublin Core XML is an excellent attempt at what you're talking about if you want to consider it a bibliographic data format, which I guess could be one of its many uses. I know that a large percentage of the data in our MARC records is not being used for finding/gathering or even display, so in that case, what good is it? There is a lot of richness in those records, but it's so all-over-the-place that whatever value it might have had gets killed by all the inconsistency. In my experience, good, consistent metadata that captures the essence of an object is more useful than highly-detailed, inconsistent metadata (which all highly-detailed metadata tends to be) in a fine-grained element set. I think there may be a cultural element to this as well, in that IR people think of metadata in terms of its utility for IR purposes (at which DC tends to be extremely practical) and catalogers think of it as a thorough-as-possible description of an object (at which DC is quite inadequate). Alex Cloutman, David wrote: > I'm open to seeing new approaches to the ILS in general. A related > question I had the other day, speaking of MARC, is what would an > alternative bibliographic data format look like if it was designed with > the intent for opening access to the data our ILS systems to developers > in a more informal manner? I was thinking of an XML format that a > developer could work with without formal training, the basics of which > could be learned in an hour, and could reasonably represent the > essential fields of the 90% of records that are most likely to be viewed > by a public library patron. In my mind, such a format would allow > creators of community-based web sites to pull data from their local > library, and repurpose it without having to learn a lot of arcane > formats (e.g. MARC) or esoteric protocols (e.g. Z39.50). The sacrifice, > of course, would be loosing some of the richness MARC allows, but I > think in many common situations the really complex records are not what > patrons are interested in. You may want to consider prototyping this in > your application. I see such an effort to be vital in making our systems > relevant in future computing environments, and I am skeptical that a > simple, workable solution would come out the initial efforts of a > standardization committee. > > Just my 2 cents. > > - David > > --- > David Cloutman <[log in to unmask]> > Electronic Services Librarian > Marin County Free Library > > -----Original Message----- > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of > Peter Schlumpf > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 8:40 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Something completely different > > > Greetings! > > I have been lurking on (or ignoring) this forum for years. And > libraries too. Some of you may know me. I am the Avanti guy. I am, > perhaps, the first person to try to produce an open source ILS back in > 1999, though there is a David Duncan out there who tried before I did. I > was there when all this stuff was coming together. > > Since then I have seen a lot of good things happen. There's Koha. > There's Evergreen. They are good things. I have also seen first hand > how libraries get screwed over and over by commercial vendors with their > crappy software. I believe free software is the answer to that. I have > neglected Avanti for years, but now I am ready to return to it. > > I want to get back to simple things. Imagine if there were no Marc > records. Minimal layers of abstraction. No politics. No vendors. No > SQL straightjacket. What would an ILS look like without those things? > Sometimes the biggest prison is between the ears. > > I am in a position to do this now, and that's what I have decided to do. > I am getting busy. > > Peter Schlumpf > > Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm > -- Alex A. Dolski Web & Digitization Application Developer Lied Library, University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 S. 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