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On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Ross Singer<[log in to unmask]> wrote: > On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Jon Gorman<[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> As far as >> languages, I'd probably lean towards ruby or python for starters or >> maybe Java. Then move into php after you have a grasp of good >> programming practice. You'll also figure out more what you like to >> work on. > > Given the plaintive tone of the original post, I disagree with this > advice. Development is almost solely based on confidence and > experience (with the latter affecting the former and vice-versa). > "Good code" is secondary. > > I would almost certainly say start out with a procedural scripting > language (or at least a procedural approach) that is more common and > Googleable (PHP immediately comes to mind). The nice thing about > something like PHP, in my mind, is that it's incredibly easy to see > immediate results without having any real idea of what's going on > (that being said, I have _no_ idea what Wayne's background might be -- > perhaps this advice is too novice). As many others have replied, it's > so much easier to learn by solving an actual problem (rather than > following the 'pet store' example in your tutorial) and, in my mind, > PHP is the easiest way get off the ground. Successes breed confidence > to take on bigger projects, etc. Fully agree with that. Programming has to be learned incrementally, by getting your hands dirty a little then studying the necessary theory and repeating the cycle to tackle bigger problems. If I didn't hate the language so much I'd vote for PHP as well:) But surely a scripting language with a prominent Web presence, to start with. Preferably one that is clean, minimalist and well thought through like Smalltalk :) > > Once you've realized that this stuff isn't rocket science, /then/ > break out the theory, find a different language (perhaps more suited > to the task at hand -- or not!) and think about good code. > > Rob Styles sent this to my delicious account the other day (I'm not > sure what he was trying to tell me): > http://cowboyprogramming.com/2007/01/18/the-seven-stages-of-programming/ > > which I think sums up the arc pretty well. > > -Ross. > -- Cheers, Jakub