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One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more expensive than regular internet collections. This could easily run over replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance. Also, that while a regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant, gold-plated theft risk, in a super-portable size. Also, there's no way you're going to get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as a terminal. - Dave Mayo On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with surge > protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone told me > the > other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing is here. > One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real > electrician here who understands how do do these things. > > At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a big > overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about it, but > we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we cut our > losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll lose > it > occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and > unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave Mayo > pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or we could > use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged once a > week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really want to > encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library! > > I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. They > don't > know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our own > system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we need. We > don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we really > need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do loans, > returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have to. > > If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest? > > Thanks > Rowan > > On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by > lightning. > > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at the > very > > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge protectors > > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner? > > > > Nicole > > MLS Student > > Southern Connecticut State University > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask] > > >wrote: > > > > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's whether we > can > > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in an > > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power. > > > > > > Thanks Cary > > > > > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not necessarily > > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily get > > > > information about what your patrons are doing. > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner < > [log in to unmask]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. It > would > > be > > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it takes 3 > > > years > > > > to > > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to figure > > it > > > > out. > > > > > > > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and > emailed > > > them > > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. Maybe the > > > could > > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd world > at > > a > > > > > tenth of the cost! > > > > > > > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee meeting > > this > > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and is > > highly > > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time eight > of > > > us > > > > sit > > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they have for > > the > > > > last > > > > > 60 years! > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Rowan > > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about when I > say > > > > >> "micro-development board": > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This > > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a certain > > extent > > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this could > > work > > > > >> fairly > > > > >> well as a web server for the area. > > > > >> > > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if you're > > > willing > > > > to > > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - although, of > > > course, > > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise. It won't solve the > lightning > > > > >> problem > > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device arcing > is > > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board computers are > low > > > > enough > > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run them > for > > a > > > > long > > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it when the > > storm > > > > was > > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too, likely. > > > > >> > > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I could see > > > > something > > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving as the > > > > scanner, > > > > >> for example. You could also (if you got one with a video output) > > > attach > > > > a > > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and check-out. > > > > >> > > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might be > able > > to > > > > get > > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are several apps > > that > > > > do > > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras. > > > > >> > > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful. > > > > >> > > > > >> - Dave > > > > >> > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant < > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet figured > > out > > > > >> > pricing. We are definitely considering the needs of the > > developing > > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet. At this point we are most > > > focused > > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human > > intervention. > > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most > > automatable > > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)." > > > > >> > Roy > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner < > > > [log in to unmask]> > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in US. > Also, > > if > > > > it > > > > >> > will > > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be at least > > > $700 > > > > a > > > > >> > year? > > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for first > > world > > > > >> > countries > > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time staff > > which > > > we > > > > >> > don't > > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. There are > > > > probably > > > > >> > 1000s > > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still and if > > > there > > > > are > > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Cheers > > > > >> > > Rowan > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*. > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just amused by > the > > > > typo. > > > > >> It > > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page, and > > perhaps > > > > >> > >> elsewhere. Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as "absolutley" > on > > > the > > > > >> > sign-up > > > > >> > >> page. > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant < > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC: > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL) > > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/ > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is very > > easy > > > to > > > > >> use > > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities. It's in > > free > > > > >> trial > > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you need. > > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant > > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON < > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > wrote: > > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs so-called Web > > > > >> Management > > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat local.) > > and > > > > circ > > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud.. > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton > > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian > > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries > > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122 > > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184 > > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201 > > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070 > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM > > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> > > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate without a > > > > computer > > > > >> > yet? > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most > community > > > > >> libraries > > > > >> > >> used > > > > >> > >> > to > > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed about 15% > of > > > > books > > > > >> > aren't > > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations. So we > > have > > > > that > > > > >> > >> > constant > > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog manually. > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I was > > > thinking > > > > >> > maybe > > > > >> > >> > with a > > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I didn't > > think > > > > >> > >> librarything > > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a catalog. > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon? > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Cheers > > > > >> > >> > > Rowan > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo < > [log in to unmask]> > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a solution > > that's > > > > >> > entirely > > > > >> > >> > cloud > > > > >> > >> > >> based. > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a very > limited > > > > subset > > > > >> > of > > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a LibraryThing > > > paid > > > > >> > account > > > > >> > >> or > > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice. > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation > works/is > > > > >> expected > > > > >> > to > > > > >> > >> > work > > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present. Is there a sign-out > > sheet? > > > > How > > > > >> do > > > > >> > >> you > > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage? > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner < > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote: > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but volunteers just > > come > > > > in 2 > > > > >> > hrs > > > > >> > >> a > > > > >> > >> > >> week. > > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave > anything > > > > plugged > > > > >> > in > > > > >> > >> it > > > > >> > >> > >> will > > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in cloud > > forest. > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the software > on > > a > > > > >> server > > > > >> > or > > > > >> > >> > do > > > > >> > >> > >> we > > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system? Running a > > > system > > > > >> > >> ourselves > > > > >> > >> > >> might > > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out. > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers > > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme < > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan- > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems very > > easy > > > to > > > > >> do. > > > > >> > >> > There > > > > >> > >> > >> are > > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as Koha and > > > > >> Evergreen > > > > >> > >> that > > > > >> > >> > >> might > > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs: > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/ > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/ > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time the > > library > > > > is > > > > >> > open > > > > >> > >> to > > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers? Or are you counting on borrowers having > > > > >> smartphones > > > > >> > to > > > > >> > >> > >> > complete > > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout? > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -- > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, Baba > > O'Reilly > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner wrote: > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but if > anyone > > > can > > > > >> point > > > > >> > me > > > > >> > >> > in > > > > >> > >> > >> the > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction... > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't leave a > > > computer > > > > in > > > > >> > it. > > > > >> > >> Is > > > > >> > >> > >> there > > > > >> > >> > >> > a > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and catalog > in > > > the > > > > >> > cloud. > > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and clients > > access > > > > >> catalog > > > > >> > >> with > > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Cary Gordon > > > > The Cherry Hill Company > > > > http://chillco.com > > > > > > > > > >