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Well I thought that we could plug either an iphone or computer (eg netbook or your dev. board) into an UPS and extend the battery life that way. It would be on standby most of the time. The longest it would have to last would be a week because any on the committee could plug it in while they are in the library. And maybe other people could plug it in but it would have more chance of being left plugged in. Whatever we had would have to be secured and yes, it will be difficult to do and one of the reasons we do everything manually - nothing to steal. I used to run an undergrad computer lab in the 80s that was unstaffed and everything tied down. People used to nick the cables. I suppose the choice between an iphone and a computer would be price and running time on an UPS. At the moment the only access to the internet from the library is over the mobile phone net so whether we use computer or iphone the cost will be the same. They have just put up poles for fibre optic, but I've learnt not to hold me breath over things like that. I have to say, it seems like the librarian is starting to consider it. When I first brought it up 2 years ago the reaction was, we could never automate here! I said something the other day about it taking 3 years and she said, oh way longer than that. By then, who knows what there will be? On 7 October 2011 12:35, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a > recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more > expensive than regular internet collections. This could easily run over > replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance. Also, that while a > regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant, gold-plated > theft risk, in a super-portable size. Also, there's no way you're going to > get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as a > terminal. > > - Dave Mayo > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with surge > > protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone told me > > the > > other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing is > here. > > One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real > > electrician here who understands how do do these things. > > > > At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a big > > overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about it, but > > we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we cut our > > losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll lose > > it > > occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and > > unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave Mayo > > pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or we > could > > use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged once a > > week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really want to > > encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library! > > > > I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. They > > don't > > know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our own > > system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we need. > We > > don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we > really > > need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do > loans, > > returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have to. > > > > If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest? > > > > Thanks > > Rowan > > > > On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by > > lightning. > > > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at the > > very > > > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge > protectors > > > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner? > > > > > > Nicole > > > MLS Student > > > Southern Connecticut State University > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask] > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's whether we > > can > > > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in an > > > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power. > > > > > > > > Thanks Cary > > > > > > > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not > necessarily > > > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily get > > > > > information about what your patrons are doing. > > > > > > > > > > Cary > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner < > > [log in to unmask]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. It > > would > > > be > > > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it takes > 3 > > > > years > > > > > to > > > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to > figure > > > it > > > > > out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and > > emailed > > > > them > > > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. Maybe > the > > > > could > > > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd > world > > at > > > a > > > > > > tenth of the cost! > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee meeting > > > this > > > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and is > > > highly > > > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time > eight > > of > > > > us > > > > > sit > > > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they have > for > > > the > > > > > last > > > > > > 60 years! > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Rowan > > > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about when I > > say > > > > > >> "micro-development board": > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This > > > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a certain > > > extent > > > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this could > > > work > > > > > >> fairly > > > > > >> well as a web server for the area. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if you're > > > > willing > > > > > to > > > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - although, of > > > > course, > > > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise. It won't solve the > > lightning > > > > > >> problem > > > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device arcing > > is > > > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board computers are > > low > > > > > enough > > > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run them > > for > > > a > > > > > long > > > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it when the > > > storm > > > > > was > > > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too, likely. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I could > see > > > > > something > > > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving as the > > > > > scanner, > > > > > >> for example. You could also (if you got one with a video > output) > > > > attach > > > > > a > > > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and check-out. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might be > > able > > > to > > > > > get > > > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are several > apps > > > that > > > > > do > > > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> - Dave > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant < > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet > figured > > > out > > > > > >> > pricing. We are definitely considering the needs of the > > > developing > > > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet. At this point we are most > > > > focused > > > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human > > > intervention. > > > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most > > > automatable > > > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)." > > > > > >> > Roy > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner < > > > > [log in to unmask]> > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in US. > > Also, > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > >> > will > > > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be at > least > > > > $700 > > > > > a > > > > > >> > year? > > > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for first > > > world > > > > > >> > countries > > > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time staff > > > which > > > > we > > > > > >> > don't > > > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. There > are > > > > > probably > > > > > >> > 1000s > > > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still and > if > > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Cheers > > > > > >> > > Rowan > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*. > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just amused by > > the > > > > > typo. > > > > > >> It > > > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page, and > > > perhaps > > > > > >> > >> elsewhere. Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as > "absolutley" > > on > > > > the > > > > > >> > sign-up > > > > > >> > >> page. > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant < > > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC: > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL) > > > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/ > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is very > > > easy > > > > to > > > > > >> use > > > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities. It's > in > > > free > > > > > >> trial > > > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you > need. > > > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant > > > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON < > > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs so-called > Web > > > > > >> Management > > > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat local.) > > > and > > > > > circ > > > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud.. > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton > > > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian > > > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries > > > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122 > > > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184 > > > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201 > > > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070 > > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > > > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM > > > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask] > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate without > a > > > > > computer > > > > > >> > yet? > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most > > community > > > > > >> libraries > > > > > >> > >> used > > > > > >> > >> > to > > > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed about 15% > > of > > > > > books > > > > > >> > aren't > > > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations. So > we > > > have > > > > > that > > > > > >> > >> > constant > > > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog manually. > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I was > > > > thinking > > > > > >> > maybe > > > > > >> > >> > with a > > > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I didn't > > > think > > > > > >> > >> librarything > > > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a catalog. > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon? > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Cheers > > > > > >> > >> > > Rowan > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo < > > [log in to unmask]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a solution > > > that's > > > > > >> > entirely > > > > > >> > >> > cloud > > > > > >> > >> > >> based. > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a very > > limited > > > > > subset > > > > > >> > of > > > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a > LibraryThing > > > > paid > > > > > >> > account > > > > > >> > >> or > > > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice. > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation > > works/is > > > > > >> expected > > > > > >> > to > > > > > >> > >> > work > > > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present. Is there a sign-out > > > sheet? > > > > > How > > > > > >> do > > > > > >> > >> you > > > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage? > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner < > > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > > > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but volunteers > just > > > come > > > > > in 2 > > > > > >> > hrs > > > > > >> > >> a > > > > > >> > >> > >> week. > > > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave > > anything > > > > > plugged > > > > > >> > in > > > > > >> > >> it > > > > > >> > >> > >> will > > > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in cloud > > > forest. > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the > software > > on > > > a > > > > > >> server > > > > > >> > or > > > > > >> > >> > do > > > > > >> > >> > >> we > > > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system? Running a > > > > system > > > > > >> > >> ourselves > > > > > >> > >> > >> might > > > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out. > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme < > > > > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan- > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems very > > > easy > > > > to > > > > > >> do. > > > > > >> > >> > There > > > > > >> > >> > >> are > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as Koha > and > > > > > >> Evergreen > > > > > >> > >> that > > > > > >> > >> > >> might > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs: > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/ > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/ > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time the > > > library > > > > > is > > > > > >> > open > > > > > >> > >> to > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers? Or are you counting on borrowers > having > > > > > >> smartphones > > > > > >> > to > > > > > >> > >> > >> > complete > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout? > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -- > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, Baba > > > O'Reilly > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but if > > anyone > > > > can > > > > > >> point > > > > > >> > me > > > > > >> > >> > in > > > > > >> > >> > >> the > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction... > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't leave a > > > > computer > > > > > in > > > > > >> > it. > > > > > >> > >> Is > > > > > >> > >> > >> there > > > > > >> > >> > >> > a > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and catalog > > in > > > > the > > > > > >> > cloud. > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and clients > > > access > > > > > >> catalog > > > > > >> > >> with > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Cary Gordon > > > > > The Cherry Hill Company > > > > > http://chillco.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >