So it is! It needs an external monitor that also needs power, but definitely one to keep in mind. Thanks Ross. On 7 October 2011 20:43, Ross Singer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > By the time you're up and running, this http://www.raspberrypi.org/ > may be an option for you, as well. > > A lot cheaper than an iPhone... > -Ross. > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Well I thought that we could plug either an iphone or computer (eg > netbook > > or your dev. board) into an UPS and extend the battery life that way. It > > would be on standby most of the time. The longest it would have to last > > would be a week because any on the committee could plug it in while they > are > > in the library. And maybe other people could plug it in but it would have > > more chance of being left plugged in. Whatever we had would have to be > > secured and yes, it will be difficult to do and one of the reasons we do > > everything manually - nothing to steal. I used to run an undergrad > computer > > lab in the 80s that was unstaffed and everything tied down. People used > to > > nick the cables. I suppose the choice between an iphone and a computer > would > > be price and running time on an UPS. > > > > At the moment the only access to the internet from the library is over > the > > mobile phone net so whether we use computer or iphone the cost will be > the > > same. They have just put up poles for fibre optic, but I've learnt not to > > hold me breath over things like that. > > > > I have to say, it seems like the librarian is starting to consider it. > When > > I first brought it up 2 years ago the reaction was, we could never > automate > > here! I said something the other day about it taking 3 years and she > said, > > oh way longer than that. By then, who knows what there will be? > > > > On 7 October 2011 12:35, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > >> One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a > >> recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more > >> expensive than regular internet collections. This could easily run over > >> replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance. Also, that while > a > >> regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant, > gold-plated > >> theft risk, in a super-portable size. Also, there's no way you're going > to > >> get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as a > >> terminal. > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with > surge > >> > protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone told > me > >> > the > >> > other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing is > >> here. > >> > One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real > >> > electrician here who understands how do do these things. > >> > > >> > At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a > big > >> > overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about it, > but > >> > we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we cut > our > >> > losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll > lose > >> > it > >> > occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and > >> > unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave > Mayo > >> > pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or we > >> could > >> > use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged once > a > >> > week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really want > to > >> > encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library! > >> > > >> > I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. They > >> > don't > >> > know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our > own > >> > system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we > need. > >> We > >> > don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we > >> really > >> > need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do > >> loans, > >> > returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have > to. > >> > > >> > If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Rowan > >> > > >> > On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by > >> > lightning. > >> > > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at > the > >> > very > >> > > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge > >> protectors > >> > > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner? > >> > > > >> > > Nicole > >> > > MLS Student > >> > > Southern Connecticut State University > >> > > > >> > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner < > [log in to unmask] > >> > > >wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's whether > we > >> > can > >> > > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in > an > >> > > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks Cary > >> > > > > >> > > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not > >> necessarily > >> > > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily get > >> > > > > information about what your patrons are doing. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Cary > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner < > >> > [log in to unmask]> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. It > >> > would > >> > > be > >> > > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it > takes > >> 3 > >> > > > years > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to > >> figure > >> > > it > >> > > > > out. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and > >> > emailed > >> > > > them > >> > > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. Maybe > >> the > >> > > > could > >> > > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd > >> world > >> > at > >> > > a > >> > > > > > tenth of the cost! > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee > meeting > >> > > this > >> > > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and > is > >> > > highly > >> > > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time > >> eight > >> > of > >> > > > us > >> > > > > sit > >> > > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they > have > >> for > >> > > the > >> > > > > last > >> > > > > > 60 years! > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Cheers > >> > > > > > Rowan > >> > > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about when > I > >> > say > >> > > > > >> "micro-development board": > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This > >> > > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a > certain > >> > > extent > >> > > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this > could > >> > > work > >> > > > > >> fairly > >> > > > > >> well as a web server for the area. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if > you're > >> > > > willing > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - although, > of > >> > > > course, > >> > > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise. It won't solve the > >> > lightning > >> > > > > >> problem > >> > > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device > arcing > >> > is > >> > > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board computers > are > >> > low > >> > > > > enough > >> > > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run > them > >> > for > >> > > a > >> > > > > long > >> > > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it when > the > >> > > storm > >> > > > > was > >> > > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too, > likely. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I could > >> see > >> > > > > something > >> > > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving as > the > >> > > > > scanner, > >> > > > > >> for example. You could also (if you got one with a video > >> output) > >> > > > attach > >> > > > > a > >> > > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and check-out. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might > be > >> > able > >> > > to > >> > > > > get > >> > > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are several > >> apps > >> > > that > >> > > > > do > >> > > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> - Dave > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant < > >> > [log in to unmask] > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet > >> figured > >> > > out > >> > > > > >> > pricing. We are definitely considering the needs of the > >> > > developing > >> > > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet. At this point we are > most > >> > > > focused > >> > > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human > >> > > intervention. > >> > > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most > >> > > automatable > >> > > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)." > >> > > > > >> > Roy > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner < > >> > > > [log in to unmask]> > >> > > > > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in US. > >> > Also, > >> > > if > >> > > > > it > >> > > > > >> > will > >> > > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be at > >> least > >> > > > $700 > >> > > > > a > >> > > > > >> > year? > >> > > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for > first > >> > > world > >> > > > > >> > countries > >> > > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time > staff > >> > > which > >> > > > we > >> > > > > >> > don't > >> > > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. There > >> are > >> > > > > probably > >> > > > > >> > 1000s > >> > > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still > and > >> if > >> > > > there > >> > > > > are > >> > > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it. > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > Cheers > >> > > > > >> > > Rowan > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo < > [log in to unmask]> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just amused > by > >> > the > >> > > > > typo. > >> > > > > >> It > >> > > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page, > and > >> > > perhaps > >> > > > > >> > >> elsewhere. Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as > >> "absolutley" > >> > on > >> > > > the > >> > > > > >> > sign-up > >> > > > > >> > >> page. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant < > >> > > > [log in to unmask] > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC: > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL) > >> > > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/ > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is > very > >> > > easy > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> use > >> > > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities. > It's > >> in > >> > > free > >> > > > > >> trial > >> > > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you > >> need. > >> > > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant > >> > > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON < > >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs so-called > >> Web > >> > > > > >> Management > >> > > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat > local.) > >> > > and > >> > > > > circ > >> > > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud.. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122 > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184 > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201 > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070 > >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM > >> > > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] < > [log in to unmask] > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate > without > >> a > >> > > > > computer > >> > > > > >> > yet? > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most > >> > community > >> > > > > >> libraries > >> > > > > >> > >> used > >> > > > > >> > >> > to > >> > > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed about > 15% > >> > of > >> > > > > books > >> > > > > >> > aren't > >> > > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations. > So > >> we > >> > > have > >> > > > > that > >> > > > > >> > >> > constant > >> > > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog manually. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I > was > >> > > > thinking > >> > > > > >> > maybe > >> > > > > >> > >> > with a > >> > > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I > didn't > >> > > think > >> > > > > >> > >> librarything > >> > > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a > catalog. > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon? > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Cheers > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Rowan > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo < > >> > [log in to unmask]> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a > solution > >> > > that's > >> > > > > >> > entirely > >> > > > > >> > >> > cloud > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> based. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a very > >> > limited > >> > > > > subset > >> > > > > >> > of > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a > >> LibraryThing > >> > > > paid > >> > > > > >> > account > >> > > > > >> > >> or > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation > >> > works/is > >> > > > > >> expected > >> > > > > >> > to > >> > > > > >> > >> > work > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present. Is there a > sign-out > >> > > sheet? > >> > > > > How > >> > > > > >> do > >> > > > > >> > >> you > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage? > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner < > >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but volunteers > >> just > >> > > come > >> > > > > in 2 > >> > > > > >> > hrs > >> > > > > >> > >> a > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> week. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave > >> > anything > >> > > > > plugged > >> > > > > >> > in > >> > > > > >> > >> it > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> will > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in cloud > >> > > forest. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the > >> software > >> > on > >> > > a > >> > > > > >> server > >> > > > > >> > or > >> > > > > >> > >> > do > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> we > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system? > Running a > >> > > > system > >> > > > > >> > >> ourselves > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme < > >> > > > [log in to unmask] > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan- > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems > very > >> > > easy > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> do. > >> > > > > >> > >> > There > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> are > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as > Koha > >> and > >> > > > > >> Evergreen > >> > > > > >> > >> that > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs: > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/ > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/ > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time > the > >> > > library > >> > > > > is > >> > > > > >> > open > >> > > > > >> > >> to > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers? Or are you counting on borrowers > >> having > >> > > > > >> smartphones > >> > > > > >> > to > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > complete > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout? > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -- > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, Baba > >> > > O'Reilly > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but if > >> > anyone > >> > > > can > >> > > > > >> point > >> > > > > >> > me > >> > > > > >> > >> > in > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> the > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction... > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't leave > a > >> > > > computer > >> > > > > in > >> > > > > >> > it. > >> > > > > >> > >> Is > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> there > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > a > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and > catalog > >> > in > >> > > > the > >> > > > > >> > cloud. > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and > clients > >> > > access > >> > > > > >> catalog > >> > > > > >> > >> with > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > -- > >> > > > > Cary Gordon > >> > > > > The Cherry Hill Company > >> > > > > http://chillco.com > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >