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By the time you're up and running, this http://www.raspberrypi.org/ may be an option for you, as well. A lot cheaper than an iPhone... -Ross. On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Well I thought that we could plug either an iphone or computer (eg netbook > or your dev. board) into an UPS and extend the battery life that way. It > would be on standby most of the time. The longest it would have to last > would be a week because any on the committee could plug it in while they are > in the library. And maybe other people could plug it in but it would have > more chance of being left plugged in. Whatever we had would have to be > secured and yes, it will be difficult to do and one of the reasons we do > everything manually - nothing to steal. I used to run an undergrad computer > lab in the 80s that was unstaffed and everything tied down. People used to > nick the cables. I suppose the choice between an iphone and a computer would > be price and running time on an UPS. > > At the moment the only access to the internet from the library is over the > mobile phone net so whether we use computer or iphone the cost will be the > same. They have just put up poles for fibre optic, but I've learnt not to > hold me breath over things like that. > > I have to say, it seems like the librarian is starting to consider it. When > I first brought it up 2 years ago the reaction was, we could never automate > here! I said something the other day about it taking 3 years and she said, > oh way longer than that. By then, who knows what there will be? > > On 7 October 2011 12:35, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a >> recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more >> expensive than regular internet collections. This could easily run over >> replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance. Also, that while a >> regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant, gold-plated >> theft risk, in a super-portable size. Also, there's no way you're going to >> get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as a >> terminal. >> >> - Dave Mayo >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >> > Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with surge >> > protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone told me >> > the >> > other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing is >> here. >> > One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real >> > electrician here who understands how do do these things. >> > >> > At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a big >> > overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about it, but >> > we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we cut our >> > losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll lose >> > it >> > occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and >> > unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave Mayo >> > pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or we >> could >> > use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged once a >> > week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really want to >> > encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library! >> > >> > I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. They >> > don't >> > know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our own >> > system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we need. >> We >> > don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we >> really >> > need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do >> loans, >> > returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have to. >> > >> > If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest? >> > >> > Thanks >> > Rowan >> > >> > On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> > >> > > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by >> > lightning. >> > > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at the >> > very >> > > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge >> protectors >> > > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner? >> > > >> > > Nicole >> > > MLS Student >> > > Southern Connecticut State University >> > > >> > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask] >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> > > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's whether we >> > can >> > > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in an >> > > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power. >> > > > >> > > > Thanks Cary >> > > > >> > > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not >> necessarily >> > > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily get >> > > > > information about what your patrons are doing. >> > > > > >> > > > > Cary >> > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner < >> > [log in to unmask]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. It >> > would >> > > be >> > > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it takes >> 3 >> > > > years >> > > > > to >> > > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to >> figure >> > > it >> > > > > out. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and >> > emailed >> > > > them >> > > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. Maybe >> the >> > > > could >> > > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd >> world >> > at >> > > a >> > > > > > tenth of the cost! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee meeting >> > > this >> > > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and is >> > > highly >> > > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time >> eight >> > of >> > > > us >> > > > > sit >> > > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they have >> for >> > > the >> > > > > last >> > > > > > 60 years! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Cheers >> > > > > > Rowan >> > > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about when I >> > say >> > > > > >> "micro-development board": >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This >> > > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a certain >> > > extent >> > > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this could >> > > work >> > > > > >> fairly >> > > > > >> well as a web server for the area. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if you're >> > > > willing >> > > > > to >> > > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - although, of >> > > > course, >> > > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise. It won't solve the >> > lightning >> > > > > >> problem >> > > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device arcing >> > is >> > > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board computers are >> > low >> > > > > enough >> > > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run them >> > for >> > > a >> > > > > long >> > > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it when the >> > > storm >> > > > > was >> > > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too, likely. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I could >> see >> > > > > something >> > > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving as the >> > > > > scanner, >> > > > > >> for example. You could also (if you got one with a video >> output) >> > > > attach >> > > > > a >> > > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and check-out. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might be >> > able >> > > to >> > > > > get >> > > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are several >> apps >> > > that >> > > > > do >> > > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> - Dave >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant < >> > [log in to unmask] >> > > > >> > > > > >> wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet >> figured >> > > out >> > > > > >> > pricing. We are definitely considering the needs of the >> > > developing >> > > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet. At this point we are most >> > > > focused >> > > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human >> > > intervention. >> > > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most >> > > automatable >> > > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)." >> > > > > >> > Roy >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner < >> > > > [log in to unmask]> >> > > > > >> > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in US. >> > Also, >> > > if >> > > > > it >> > > > > >> > will >> > > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be at >> least >> > > > $700 >> > > > > a >> > > > > >> > year? >> > > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for first >> > > world >> > > > > >> > countries >> > > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time staff >> > > which >> > > > we >> > > > > >> > don't >> > > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. There >> are >> > > > > probably >> > > > > >> > 1000s >> > > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still and >> if >> > > > there >> > > > > are >> > > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > Cheers >> > > > > >> > > Rowan >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*. >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just amused by >> > the >> > > > > typo. >> > > > > >> It >> > > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page, and >> > > perhaps >> > > > > >> > >> elsewhere. Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as >> "absolutley" >> > on >> > > > the >> > > > > >> > sign-up >> > > > > >> > >> page. >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant < >> > > > [log in to unmask] >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC: >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL) >> > > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/ >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is very >> > > easy >> > > > to >> > > > > >> use >> > > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities. It's >> in >> > > free >> > > > > >> trial >> > > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you >> need. >> > > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant >> > > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON < >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs so-called >> Web >> > > > > >> Management >> > > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat local.) >> > > and >> > > > > circ >> > > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud.. >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton >> > > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian >> > > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries >> > > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122 >> > > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184 >> > > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201 >> > > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070 >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask] >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >> > > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM >> > > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask] >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate without >> a >> > > > > computer >> > > > > >> > yet? >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most >> > community >> > > > > >> libraries >> > > > > >> > >> used >> > > > > >> > >> > to >> > > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed about 15% >> > of >> > > > > books >> > > > > >> > aren't >> > > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations. So >> we >> > > have >> > > > > that >> > > > > >> > >> > constant >> > > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog manually. >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I was >> > > > thinking >> > > > > >> > maybe >> > > > > >> > >> > with a >> > > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I didn't >> > > think >> > > > > >> > >> librarything >> > > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a catalog. >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon? >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > Cheers >> > > > > >> > >> > > Rowan >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo < >> > [log in to unmask]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a solution >> > > that's >> > > > > >> > entirely >> > > > > >> > >> > cloud >> > > > > >> > >> > >> based. >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a very >> > limited >> > > > > subset >> > > > > >> > of >> > > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a >> LibraryThing >> > > > paid >> > > > > >> > account >> > > > > >> > >> or >> > > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice. >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation >> > works/is >> > > > > >> expected >> > > > > >> > to >> > > > > >> > >> > work >> > > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present. Is there a sign-out >> > > sheet? >> > > > > How >> > > > > >> do >> > > > > >> > >> you >> > > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage? >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner < >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask] >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but volunteers >> just >> > > come >> > > > > in 2 >> > > > > >> > hrs >> > > > > >> > >> a >> > > > > >> > >> > >> week. >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave >> > anything >> > > > > plugged >> > > > > >> > in >> > > > > >> > >> it >> > > > > >> > >> > >> will >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in cloud >> > > forest. >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the >> software >> > on >> > > a >> > > > > >> server >> > > > > >> > or >> > > > > >> > >> > do >> > > > > >> > >> > >> we >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system? Running a >> > > > system >> > > > > >> > >> ourselves >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out. >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme < >> > > > [log in to unmask] >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan- >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems very >> > > easy >> > > > to >> > > > > >> do. >> > > > > >> > >> > There >> > > > > >> > >> > >> are >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as Koha >> and >> > > > > >> Evergreen >> > > > > >> > >> that >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs: >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/ >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/ >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time the >> > > library >> > > > > is >> > > > > >> > open >> > > > > >> > >> to >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers? Or are you counting on borrowers >> having >> > > > > >> smartphones >> > > > > >> > to >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > complete >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout? >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -- >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, Baba >> > > O'Reilly >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but if >> > anyone >> > > > can >> > > > > >> point >> > > > > >> > me >> > > > > >> > >> > in >> > > > > >> > >> > >> the >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction... >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't leave a >> > > > computer >> > > > > in >> > > > > >> > it. >> > > > > >> > >> Is >> > > > > >> > >> > >> there >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > a >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and catalog >> > in >> > > > the >> > > > > >> > cloud. >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and clients >> > > access >> > > > > >> catalog >> > > > > >> > >> with >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Cary Gordon >> > > > > The Cherry Hill Company >> > > > > http://chillco.com >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >