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True, I just trusted my memory on the whole pre-conferences as free thing. Correcting my memory, in 2011, we charged $15 per half-day conference and in 2010 we charged $25 for an attend-all-you-want preconference. I am not sure that these prices included the hackfest and the unconference. Cary, I think your memory is correct in that hackfests are generally free. At least the Access Conference Hackfests were/are. In general we are operating on the notion of trying to keep the conference as affordable as possible, while still covering expenses and providing attendees with the latitude to connect, learn and have a good time. I side with Cary on this one, that we encourage people to participate in as much of code4lib as they can. Or as Kyle phrases it, I think encouraging people and community is what it's really about, and that if the preconferences are free and more people come, it strengthens the entire conference. I am inclined to go with my rash original statement and keep preconferences free. Or I also like Sean's suggestion and rename it accordingly as 'generously free preconference.' At $150 for registration, I agree with Kyle, that this is a very good price in comparison to most technical conferences. Perhaps you could consider the extra airfare and hotel room night as the price of the pre-conference. Collectively, we've already spent almost or as much money thinking about this issue than the preconference would have brought in. (Jenn) And no lunch for preconferencers. None. --Anjanette