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I agree with you that coders/sys admins speak different language, but I think you'll find this is pretty common (at least in my experience) of any differences, even within the same groups. Database programmers say versus someone who does iphone applications. I am not inferring sys admins are less geeky over coders nor am I inferring anyone one group of geekery is better than the other, and I apoloigze if this is what came across. What I am stating in the larger library world, it seems that in the discussions of "geek" seems to be synonymous with "coder" in the realm of articles and such. This is not a separation of who is better or how is not, it is a separation of what is being discussed at the much larger level over what is not. I have seen a lot of pushing in jobs, articles, and what have you for someone who is skilled in programming for say a systems job or discussion, but no mention (or very little) is made of someone who has networking experience or in hardware. These other elements are just as crucial to the job, so, why are they often left out? Again, it's not a matter of who holds the title of "geek," (and it never was), but it is a matter of what is being asked for and discussed. I do think that is a disservice. _lisa -- Lisa M. Rabey, MA, MLIS ------------------------ Systems & Web Librarian Grand Rapids Community College p: 616.234.3786 | e: [log in to unmask] http://grcc.edu/library | http://grcc.edu/library/socialmedia >>> On 28/11/2012 at 19:40, Ross Singer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I would disagree that sysadmin/network admin types are considered less > geeky, it's just that coders and sysadmins speak completely different > languages, tend not to trust each other, and are generally working against > one another (since they have different goals). Bess's "Werewolves vs. > Vampires" presentation a couple years ago explained this well. > > But that doesn't mean that A) we don't have a lot to learn from each other > B) one group gets to claim the title of "geek" over the other C) shouldn't > all congregate under the same tent (whether that be Code4Lib or wherever). > > -Ross. > On Nov 28, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Lisa Rabey <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Super short term lurker (since today!). It was suggested by various people > on Twitter (hello people of Twitter) that I join code4lib because of this > exchange and it greatly touches on one of my passions (see: > http://exitpursuedbyabear.net/2012/11/why-white-men-should-not-mostly-write-about-gen > der-disparity-in-technology/). What I was able to see via the archives on the > website and here has been awesome! > > > > Which brings me to Becky's point below: As someone who is not a coder, has > no plans on being a coder, and would rather shove things in her eyeballs then > learn programming, Becky has a valid point about broadening the reach of > women in tech. I've noticed a trend that in the library world (articles and > such), when one talks about being a "geek," it seems to be synonymous with > "coder." And those of us who are not coding, who are say network geeks or > hardware geeks or somewhere else, are kind of left out in the cold. In a way, > we're excluded from the culture as well. (I'm a network geek. I used to > configure and manage tier 1 (backbone) routers back in the late '90s/ early > '00s). BGP 4 LYFE. > > > > In the library world there is a huge dichotomy in the geekdom as this is > mainly female orientated profession but the technical side is mainly male > dominated. There needs to be a balance struck and that is going to be hard. > But I think making an initiative like this (creating a Code4LibWomen) is a > good idea, but by being far too inclusive (only available to those who are in > the community of Code4Lib) is restrictive. I think it would be better served > if it was pushed to a wider audience to make women in tech, who may not be on > Code4Lib, find a community of like minded individuals. A suggestion I had > made on my blog was that a SIG becreated at ALA or LITA or some other more > broad reaching group. Another was working with the Ada Initiative as well. I > think there is a lot that can be done, but it should be addressed on a much > broader scale. > > > > The problem with sexism in the geek world is not new, by any stretch of the > imagination, but what IS new is that more women are talking openly about it, > everywhere. This is exciting. And promising. It's like 1920 all over again! > > > > _lisa/@pnkrcklibrarian > > > > > > -- > > Lisa M. Rabey, MA, MLIS > > ------------------------ > > Systems & Web Librarian > > Grand Rapids Community College > > p: 616.234.3786 | e: [log in to unmask] > > http://grcc.edu/library | http://grcc.edu/library/socialmedia > > > >>>> On 28/11/2012 at 16:00, Becky Yoose <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> If this (as in a group for women in library technology) is going to become > >> reality, I want to see this take one step broader, and incorporate ALL > >> women in library tech, and not just designating it to one subset of the > >> library community (code4lib). code4lib can be a collaborator with another > >> organization (LITA?) to reach more people. This is a broader issue than > >> code4lib, and needs to be treated as such.