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Hi All, Not trying to keep this thread going on forever. But, I do want to say that, based on the discussion thus far, I do believe that MJ's opinion is in the minority. At least, from what I've heard, this seems to be the case. Personally, I feel that it's absolutely wonderful that #libtechwomen has been created, and I think it can only benefit code4lib and other technology/library groups by encouraging more involvement from women & minorities in general. I don't see this as a fragmentation of our community, but rather a natural growth into "interest/support groups" which can better concentrate on specific issues & provide support around such issues. We have to admit that code4lib has grown rapidly over the years, and as it continues to grow it will become harder & harder to "hear" all the voices/opinions/issues without providing a place for discussions that is NOT #code4lib IRC. (No offense meant to #code4lib IRC. As a chatroom grows in membership, it will naturally become a bit more intimidating to newbies. No matter how much you try to be welcoming, no newbie wants to come across the wrong way / say the wrong thing in front of 100+ tech folks from throughout the world.) So, yay for #libtechwomen & all those who have had the guts to get it started! It's obviously a much needed discussion & support space (as also made evident from this continued thread). I hope the code4lib community can encourage even more such spaces in the future. - Tim -- Tim Donohue Technical Lead for DSpace Project DuraSpace.org On 12/17/2012 12:20 PM, Lisa H Kurt wrote: > Robin ++. > > MJ - I can't barely respond to you. This is rather upsetting because the > very group of people that want and need and are willing to gather to > create such an initiative are being told no. I don't think a group that > offers support and learning focused toward a marginalized membership base > is discrimination. There are many women in tech groups and they exist for > a reason and work well. People can't learn if they don't feel comfortable > and safe. If people wonder why women feel intimidated and not part of > things- it's this attitude right here. > > How sad. > > On 12/13/12 2:09 PM, "Robin Schaaf" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> MJ, when you put everything under Equality, it dilutes each individual >> purpose. I find this type of response aggravating, actually (and enough >> that I'm actually sending an email (which I never do) about this!) >> Women have different issues than other groups - even stuff like when you >> have a kid and take a year off, how do you keep up on your mad >> programming skillz? Or program with pregnancy-brain? >> We often have different ways to look at things - obviously not less, but >> different. But in a predominantly male field it's easy to get lost or >> feel like an outsider (or heck, to be assumed in marketing!) >> >> If you want to be inclusive, you need to have a supportive environment. >> It's probably hard for anyone to imagine themselves a part of community >> when being outnumbered 20 to 1, especially with responses that dismiss >> something that multiple women are interested in. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of >> MJ Ray >> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:26 AM >> To: [log in to unmask] >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Question abt the code4libwomen idea >> >>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Bess Sadler <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>>> There have been some contradictory statements made about >>>> #libtechwomen because it was an emerging idea, and like code4lib, >>>> there is no formal power structure or authority. There is no >>>> requirement that one be female to participate, [...] >> >> That is good to know and a big improvement. >> >>>> The suggestion has been made that the name "libtechwomen" might not >>>> be welcoming to someone who wants to participate but does not >>>> identify as a woman. We have already discussed changing it and >>>> welcome suggestions. >> >> I suggest libtechEquality - any progress with other suggestions? >> >> Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> >>> Are there folks out there who think that you can only be in one IRC >>> room at a time? If I want to be in the #190cmtall room, nobody in >>> #code4lib would know, nor would it be any of their business. Are there >>> people here who really feel threatened by this? >> >> That's not really a similar thing, but might indicate other problems. >> Would we not be troubled by code4lib<anything>, just because it could be >> kept hidden and you could use code4lib anyway? >> >> Regards, >> -- >> MJ Ray >> Setchey, Norfolk, England