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I really don't see how setting up a new IRC channel (or tumblr, or any other forum) to encourage and promote the inclusion of women is discriminatory. You keep on using that term, and accusing others of prejudice, but you have shown no proof. -Esme -- Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]> "They extend copyrights perpetually. They don't get how that in itself is a form of theft." -- Lawrence Lessig, Free Culture On 12/10/2012, at 8:30 PM, MJ Ray <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Wilhelmina Randtke asked: >> When you say someone referred to "a group just for women", did you mean >> when Bohyun Kim said "interests in a space for women"? >> >> Because if you did, then you should not have used quotes, since you were >> not quoting. If that language you don't like came from somewhere else, >> then please be more specific, because I didn't see it at the start of this >> thread that I'm emailing on. > > That language is in the second paragraph of the email dated Fri, 7 Dec > 2012 16:13:47 +0000 from Bohyun Kim, but I apologise for having put > the a in the quote marks. It should have been outside them, as I cut > part of "a small support and discussion group for just women". I > guess I hit the editing keys badly on Friday. > > It's very disappointing that no-one else seems willing to challenge > that behaviour and so many are actively supporting it. I feel like > we're still in the dark ages. Two wrongs do not make a right and two > discriminations - one unconscious and one conscious - does not make > equality. > > Joshua Gomez suggested: >> [...] And I don't think that reverse discrimination is the true >> concern of most of those that have voiced opinions against a >> sub-community for women (at least I hope not). > > I don't think that suggesting everyone who disagrees with one's view > is insincere or dishonest or something is a good idea. > > Personally, my concern isn't that it is reverse discrimination - it's > that it is still discrimination. I don't feel that past sins excuse > further ones. > >> [...] And since I am not a member of the group that has been >> discriminated against I don't think I or anyone else not in that group >> should try to dissuade them from doing what is in their best interest. > > I am not a member of *that* group that has been discriminated against, > but I am a member of one minority that is routinely discriminated > against in a pretty direct way - code4lib's wiki suggests we are not > human, as I mentioned in another mail on Friday: > https://listserv.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1212&L=CODE4LIB&D=0&P=167926 > - and I am not dissuading women from doing what is in their best > interest, but I believe setting up another discriminatory group is not > in anyone's best interests. The best thing would be to do similar as > we do for accessibility and have mixed groups like fixtheweb.net > working together to dismantle the barriers. > > Regards, > -- > MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. > http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. > In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html > Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/