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On 10/16/13 4:22 PM, Kyle Banerjee wrote: > > In some ways, FRBR strikes me as the catalogers' answer to the miserable > seven layer OSI model which often confuses rather than clarifies -- largely > because it doesn't reflect reality very well. Agreed. I am having trouble seeing FRBR as being beneficial, much less necessary. However, there is a wide-spread assumption that FRBR's WEMI will be implemented as a four-level, linked set of hierarchical entities, rather than that FRBR is a conceptual model (which is what the FRBR documentation says). If there are reasons to present users with works, expressions and manifestations, nothing in that requires a physical model that looks like some kind of relational database design. Yet, that seems to be what many people assume. So I'd like to expose that myth, or at least provide a way to discuss it. kc > > kyle > > > On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Yes, that's my take as well, but I think it's worth quantifying if >> possible. There is the usual trade-off between time and space -- and I'd be >> interested in hearing whether anyone here thinks that there is any concern >> about traversing the WEM structure for each search and display. Does it >> matter if every display of author in a Manifestation has to connect M-E-W? >> Or is that a concern, like space, that is no longer relevant? >> >> kc >> >> >> >> On 10/16/13 12:57 PM, Bill Dueber wrote: >> >>> If anyone out there is really making a case for FRBR based on whether or >>> not it saves a few characters in a database, well, she should give up the >>> library business and go make money off her time machine . Maybe -- >>> *maybe* -- >>> 15 years ago. But I have to say, I'm sitting on 10m records right now, and >>> would happily figure out how to deal with double or triple the space >>> requirements for added utility. Space is always a consideration, but it's >>> slipped down into about 15th place on my Giant List of Things to Worry >>> About. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> On 10/16/13 12:33 PM, Kyle Banerjee wrote: >>>> BTW, I don't think 240 is a good substitute as the content is very >>>>> different than in the regular title. That's where you'll find music, >>>>> laws, >>>>> selections, translations and it's totally littered with subfields. The >>>>> 70.1 >>>>> figure from the stripped 245 is probably closer to the mark >>>>> >>>>> Yes, you are right, especially for the particular purpose I am looking >>>> at. >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> IMO, what you stand to gain in functionality, maintenance, and analysis >>>>> is >>>>> much more interesting than potential space gains/losses. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, obviously. But there exists an apology for FRBR that says that it >>>> will save cataloger time and will be more efficient in a database. I >>>> think >>>> it's worth taking a look at those assumptions. If there is a way to >>>> measure >>>> functionality, maintenance, etc. then we should measure it, for sure. >>>> >>>> kc >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> kyle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Roy (and others!) >>>>> >>>>>> It looks like the 245 is including the $c - dang! I should have been >>>>>> more >>>>>> specific. I'm mainly interested in the title, which is $a $b -- I'm >>>>>> looking >>>>>> at the gains and losses of bytes should one implement FRBR. As a hedge, >>>>>> could I ask what've you got for the 240? that may be closer to reality. >>>>>> >>>>>> kc >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/16/13 10:57 AM, Roy Tennant wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't even have to fire it up. That's a statistic that we generate >>>>>> >>>>>>> quarterly (albeit via Hadoop). Here you go: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 100 - 30.3 >>>>>>> 245 - 103.1 >>>>>>> 600 - 41 >>>>>>> 610 - 48.8 >>>>>>> 611 - 61.4 >>>>>>> 630 - 40.8 >>>>>>> 648 - 23.8 >>>>>>> 650 - 35.1 >>>>>>> 651 - 39.6 >>>>>>> 653 - 33.3 >>>>>>> 654 - 38.1 >>>>>>> 655 - 22.5 >>>>>>> 656 - 30.6 >>>>>>> 657 - 27.4 >>>>>>> 658 - 30.7 >>>>>>> 662 - 41.7 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Roy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Sean Hannan <[log in to unmask]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That sounds like a request for Roy to fire up the ole OCLC Hadoop. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Sean >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/16/13 1:06 PM, "Karen Coyle" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anybody have data for the average length of specific MARC fields >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> reasonably representative database? I mainly need 100, 245, 6xx. >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> kc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Karen Coyle >>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net >>>>>>>>> m: 1-510-435-8234 >>>>>>>>> skype: kcoylenet >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Karen Coyle >>>>>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net >>>>>> m: 1-510-435-8234 >>>>>> skype: kcoylenet >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> Karen Coyle >>>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net >>>> m: 1-510-435-8234 >>>> skype: kcoylenet >>>> >>>> >>> >> -- >> Karen Coyle >> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net >> m: 1-510-435-8234 >> skype: kcoylenet >> -- Karen Coyle [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet