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Agreeing with everything Edward Corrado said. Incorporating and getting 501(c)(3) status should support some other goal, and if that goal is to sell T-shirts, then you're doing it wrong and loosing money on filing fees. -Wilhelmina Randtke On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Edward M. Corrado <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I think discussing which type of non-profit to be (501(c)3 vs. 501(c)6 vs. > ___ is putting the cart before the horse. There are advantages and > disadvantages to both and depending what the goals are one may be better > than the other or they both may be unnecessary. There also needs to be > discussion on where to incorporate (that is done, in the USA, at a state > level). As someone who is currently on the board of a 501(c)6 and and past > president and co-founder of a 501(c)3, I can tell you that there are lots > of forms, accounting, legal, and other requirements. If the reason for > doing it is to make a little profit off of t-shirts and coffee mugs, it > isn't worth it. You'll lose more in bank fees. If it is to be a fiscal > agent for the whole Code4Lib Conference (and thus take in and expend all of > the money involved with the conference it may be, but it will also > complicate things, like will you need insurance?) there needs to be boards, > treasurers, elections, etc. > > I am not saying I'm against it. I advocated for it years ago when it was > less popular [1]. However, I think the purposes and goals need to be > decided first before worry about what tax status the organization would fit > into and if incorporated is even worth it. I'd also highly recommend > looking into partnering with some other organization such as DLF or Lyrasis > to do this [2]. Changing the state the treasurer, president/chair, and > other officers are located in is a big headache (how big depends on the > constitution, bylaws, banks, and the state incorporated in). > > Edward > > [1] http://code4lib.org/conference/2008/corrado > [2] I only mention these because they came up, but it should be noted even > DLF isn't going it alone. They are a program of CLIR. I'm sure there are > also many others that could be good choices. > > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Andreas Orphanides <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > >> Historically, there's resistance to forming anything like an organization >> around Code4Lib proper. A great point of pride in the community is our >> generally anarcho-communist approach to self-organization and >> self-determination -- Code4Lib is manifestly not an organization, and yet >> [X], for many values of X that are challenging for even "proper" >> organizations to pull off. There's definitely concern that forming an >> organization and bylaws and the like would make it harder for Code4Lib to >> do its thing as Code4Lib, up to and including potentially fundamentally >> disrupting what Code4Lib is at its core. >> >> On the other hand, there would be a definite value -- and there is a >> demonstrated need -- for some kind of ongoing structure to support the >> community's regular activities, help manage budget handoffs between >> conferences, and the like. I think the notion of a "Friends of Code4Lib" >> has the potential of solving the financial trust/financial continuity issue >> without putting the community itself at risk of being burdened by too much >> structure. >> >> That being said, I think even the idea of Friends of Code4lib, organization >> once removed, is probably worthy of serious discussion among the community >> so we can understand how it's going to fit in with the bigger Code4Lib >> organism. >> >> -dre. >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Riley Childs <[log in to unmask] >> >wrote: >> >> > I think someone should put together bylaws and then we should vote on >> > them, if they are passed we should then vote on a board (I really don't >> > know w/w/w on this) after that we should incorporate as code4lib LLC and >> > apply for status as a 501(c)6 (members don't have to pay) or a more >> > welcoming option would be a 501(c)3 which would give us access to tax >> > deductible donations (yay!). just my $2 (which I will gladly give if this >> > becomes an entity ;) >> > >> > Riley Childs >> > Student >> > Asst. Head of IT Services >> > Charlotte United Christian Academy >> > (704) 497-2086 >> > RileyChilds.net >> > Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Simon Spero<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >> > Sent: 4/13/2014 3:33 PM >> > To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Friends of code4lib (was Re: [CODE4LIB] Call for >> > Old Conf Tshirt Logos) >> > >> > 501(c)(3) would be preferable ; the only part of congress that C4L has >> to >> > deal with is the Library of same, and I don't think edsu does much >> > legislating. >> > >> > A good application should be doable in a few months. Fees for >> incorporation >> > and IRS charges could be raised by selling off anarchivist's glasses as >> the >> > next google glass. ["how did he know that? he must be connected to the >> > net."] >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Top-Ten-Reasons-for-Delays-in-Processing-Exempt-Organization-Applications >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Esmé Cowles <[log in to unmask] >> > >wrote: >> > >> > > It seems like the main things a 501(c)(6) can do that a 501(c)(3) can't >> > is >> > > engage in advertising, lobbying, supporting candidates for office, etc. >> > > Other that that, it can engage in the same activities as a 501(c)(3). >> > > >> > > IMHO, a "Friends of code4lib" non-profit organization would fall >> squarely >> > > under the the advancement of education category (i.e. to support >> > > educational activities such as the conference, mailing list, website, >> IRC >> > > channel, etc.). So a 501(c)(3) seems like a better fit to me. >> > > >> > > -Esme >> > > >> > > On 04/13/2014, at 12:57 PM, Simon Spero <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > [Note that 501 (c)(6) only applies to membership organizations] >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Simon Spero <[log in to unmask]> >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> Whilst it might be possible that code4lib might qualify under IRC >> > > >> 501(c)(3) it is also possible that code4lib might be a professional >> > > >> organization under IRC 501(c)(6) . >> > > >> >> > > >> 6. An organization formed to stimulate the development and >> > > >>> free interchange of information pertaining to systems and >> programming >> > > >>> of electronic data processing equipment may qualify for exempt >> status >> > > under >> > > >>> IRC 501(c)(6). The membership of the particular organization at >> issue >> > > >>> is composed of members who represent diversified businesses that >> own, >> > > >>> rent, or lease digital computers produced by various manufacturers. >> > The >> > > >>> organization holds semi-annual conferences to discuss operational >> > > >>> and technical problems. The activities of this organization >> provide a >> > > >>> forum for the exchange of information that will improve the >> > efficiency >> > > of >> > > >>> the use >> > > >>> of such computers, both by members and other interested users, and >> > > >>> thus improve the overall efficiency of the business operations of >> > each. >> > > >>> Rev. Rul. 74-147, 1974-1 C.B. 136. Distinguished in Rev. Rul. >> 83-164, >> > > >>> 1983-2 >> > > >>> C.B. 95, discussed under The "Line of Business" Requirement, page >> 22. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopick03.pdf , page K-8 >> > > >> >> > > >> See e.g. the ALA - a 501(c)(3) organization, vs. ALA-APA 501(c)(6). >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > http://ala-apa.org/about-ala-apa/governing-documents/501c6-tax-status/ >> > > >> >> > > >> [IANAL. IANALL.] >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Heller, Margaret <[log in to unmask] >> > > >wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Here is a good place to start: >> > > >>> >> http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations. >> > I >> > > >>> don't think a Friends of Code4Lib would qualify as a 501(C)(4) or >> the >> > > other >> > > >>> types of exempt organization, but possibly. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> That said, we will run into all the problems that have stymied >> these >> > > >>> types of discussions in the past that are not legal problems but >> > > >>> philosophical problems. It's not hard to fill out the 501(C)(3) >> > > >>> application, but figuring out what to put in the boxes when you >> don't >> > > have >> > > >>> a legal entity is difficult. So someone would have to incorporate >> the >> > > >>> Friends organization. I am sure most of us work at places with >> > Friends >> > > of >> > > >>> the library and could see their bylaws to get some ideas. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Margaret Heller >> > > >>> Digital Services Librarian >> > > >>> Loyola University Chicago >> > > >>> 773-508-2686 >> > > >>> >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > > >>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On >> Behalf >> > > Of >> > > >>> Lisa Rabey >> > > >>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 9:39 AM >> > > >>> To: [log in to unmask] >> > > >>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Call for Old Conf Tshirt Logos >> > > >>> >> > > >>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Francis Kayiwa < >> [log in to unmask] >> > > >> > > >>> wrote: >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> +1 >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> Go for it Lisa! >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> ./fxk >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I can start digging into the hows/whys sometime in early May and >> > report >> > > >>> back. If anyone has anything of interest (past C4L list convos, >> > > >>> recommendations, etc), pass them along! >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> -- >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Lisa M. Rabey | @pnkrcklibrarian >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > >>> http://exitpursuedbyabear.net | http://lisa.rabey.net >> > > >>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > >>