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Or seriously overpricing T-Shirts... Where 501(c)(3) would probably be worthwhile would be for the conference- especially if bursaries for registration fees are involved, and donations are solicited from other charitable foundations. If the conference were being held in a state that exempted non-profits from sales/use fees for convention space rental that would cover the cost of filing in one swell foop. The issue then becomes which states that applies to, and whether registration as a foreign entity is required. What does the AALL do? :-) Simon On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Wilhelmina Randtke <[log in to unmask]>wrote: > Agreeing with everything Edward Corrado said. Incorporating and > getting 501(c)(3) status should support some other goal, and if that > goal is to sell T-shirts, then you're doing it wrong and loosing money > on filing fees. > > -Wilhelmina Randtke > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Edward M. Corrado > <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > I think discussing which type of non-profit to be (501(c)3 vs. 501(c)6 > vs. > > ___ is putting the cart before the horse. There are advantages and > > disadvantages to both and depending what the goals are one may be better > > than the other or they both may be unnecessary. There also needs to be > > discussion on where to incorporate (that is done, in the USA, at a state > > level). As someone who is currently on the board of a 501(c)6 and and > past > > president and co-founder of a 501(c)3, I can tell you that there are lots > > of forms, accounting, legal, and other requirements. If the reason for > > doing it is to make a little profit off of t-shirts and coffee mugs, it > > isn't worth it. You'll lose more in bank fees. If it is to be a fiscal > > agent for the whole Code4Lib Conference (and thus take in and expend all > of > > the money involved with the conference it may be, but it will also > > complicate things, like will you need insurance?) there needs to be > boards, > > treasurers, elections, etc. > > > > I am not saying I'm against it. I advocated for it years ago when it was > > less popular [1]. However, I think the purposes and goals need to be > > decided first before worry about what tax status the organization would > fit > > into and if incorporated is even worth it. I'd also highly recommend > > looking into partnering with some other organization such as DLF or > Lyrasis > > to do this [2]. Changing the state the treasurer, president/chair, and > > other officers are located in is a big headache (how big depends on the > > constitution, bylaws, banks, and the state incorporated in). > > > > Edward > > > > [1] http://code4lib.org/conference/2008/corrado > > [2] I only mention these because they came up, but it should be noted > even > > DLF isn't going it alone. They are a program of CLIR. I'm sure there are > > also many others that could be good choices. > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Andreas Orphanides <[log in to unmask] > >wrote: > > > >> Historically, there's resistance to forming anything like an > organization > >> around Code4Lib proper. A great point of pride in the community is our > >> generally anarcho-communist approach to self-organization and > >> self-determination -- Code4Lib is manifestly not an organization, and > yet > >> [X], for many values of X that are challenging for even "proper" > >> organizations to pull off. There's definitely concern that forming an > >> organization and bylaws and the like would make it harder for Code4Lib > to > >> do its thing as Code4Lib, up to and including potentially fundamentally > >> disrupting what Code4Lib is at its core. > >> > >> On the other hand, there would be a definite value -- and there is a > >> demonstrated need -- for some kind of ongoing structure to support the > >> community's regular activities, help manage budget handoffs between > >> conferences, and the like. I think the notion of a "Friends of Code4Lib" > >> has the potential of solving the financial trust/financial continuity > issue > >> without putting the community itself at risk of being burdened by too > much > >> structure. > >> > >> That being said, I think even the idea of Friends of Code4lib, > organization > >> once removed, is probably worthy of serious discussion among the > community > >> so we can understand how it's going to fit in with the bigger Code4Lib > >> organism. > >> > >> -dre. > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Riley Childs <[log in to unmask] > >> >wrote: > >> > >> > I think someone should put together bylaws and then we should vote on > >> > them, if they are passed we should then vote on a board (I really > don't > >> > know w/w/w on this) after that we should incorporate as code4lib LLC > and > >> > apply for status as a 501(c)6 (members don't have to pay) or a more > >> > welcoming option would be a 501(c)3 which would give us access to tax > >> > deductible donations (yay!). just my $2 (which I will gladly give if > this > >> > becomes an entity ;) > >> > > >> > Riley Childs > >> > Student > >> > Asst. Head of IT Services > >> > Charlotte United Christian Academy > >> > (704) 497-2086 > >> > RileyChilds.net > >> > Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: Simon Spero<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > >> > Sent: 4/13/2014 3:33 PM > >> > To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > >> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Friends of code4lib (was Re: [CODE4LIB] Call > for > >> > Old Conf Tshirt Logos) > >> > > >> > 501(c)(3) would be preferable ; the only part of congress that C4L > has > >> to > >> > deal with is the Library of same, and I don't think edsu does much > >> > legislating. > >> > > >> > A good application should be doable in a few months. Fees for > >> incorporation > >> > and IRS charges could be raised by selling off anarchivist's glasses > as > >> the > >> > next google glass. ["how did he know that? he must be connected to > the > >> > net."] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Top-Ten-Reasons-for-Delays-in-Processing-Exempt-Organization-Applications > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Esmé Cowles <[log in to unmask] > >> > >wrote: > >> > > >> > > It seems like the main things a 501(c)(6) can do that a 501(c)(3) > can't > >> > is > >> > > engage in advertising, lobbying, supporting candidates for office, > etc. > >> > > Other that that, it can engage in the same activities as a > 501(c)(3). > >> > > > >> > > IMHO, a "Friends of code4lib" non-profit organization would fall > >> squarely > >> > > under the the advancement of education category (i.e. to support > >> > > educational activities such as the conference, mailing list, > website, > >> IRC > >> > > channel, etc.). So a 501(c)(3) seems like a better fit to me. > >> > > > >> > > -Esme > >> > > > >> > > On 04/13/2014, at 12:57 PM, Simon Spero <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > [Note that 501 (c)(6) only applies to membership organizations] > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Simon Spero < > [log in to unmask]> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > >> Whilst it might be possible that code4lib might qualify under IRC > >> > > >> 501(c)(3) it is also possible that code4lib might be a > professional > >> > > >> organization under IRC 501(c)(6) . > >> > > >> > >> > > >> 6. An organization formed to stimulate the development and > >> > > >>> free interchange of information pertaining to systems and > >> programming > >> > > >>> of electronic data processing equipment may qualify for exempt > >> status > >> > > under > >> > > >>> IRC 501(c)(6). The membership of the particular organization at > >> issue > >> > > >>> is composed of members who represent diversified businesses that > >> own, > >> > > >>> rent, or lease digital computers produced by various > manufacturers. > >> > The > >> > > >>> organization holds semi-annual conferences to discuss > operational > >> > > >>> and technical problems. The activities of this organization > >> provide a > >> > > >>> forum for the exchange of information that will improve the > >> > efficiency > >> > > of > >> > > >>> the use > >> > > >>> of such computers, both by members and other interested users, > and > >> > > >>> thus improve the overall efficiency of the business operations > of > >> > each. > >> > > >>> Rev. Rul. 74-147, 1974-1 C.B. 136. Distinguished in Rev. Rul. > >> 83-164, > >> > > >>> 1983-2 > >> > > >>> C.B. 95, discussed under The "Line of Business" Requirement, > page > >> 22. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopick03.pdf , page > K-8 > >> > > >> > >> > > >> See e.g. the ALA - a 501(c)(3) organization, vs. ALA-APA > 501(c)(6). > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > http://ala-apa.org/about-ala-apa/governing-documents/501c6-tax-status/ > >> > > >> > >> > > >> [IANAL. IANALL.] > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Heller, Margaret < > [log in to unmask] > >> > > >wrote: > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> Here is a good place to start: > >> > > >>> > >> http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations. > >> > I > >> > > >>> don't think a Friends of Code4Lib would qualify as a 501(C)(4) > or > >> the > >> > > other > >> > > >>> types of exempt organization, but possibly. > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> That said, we will run into all the problems that have stymied > >> these > >> > > >>> types of discussions in the past that are not legal problems but > >> > > >>> philosophical problems. It's not hard to fill out the 501(C)(3) > >> > > >>> application, but figuring out what to put in the boxes when you > >> don't > >> > > have > >> > > >>> a legal entity is difficult. So someone would have to > incorporate > >> the > >> > > >>> Friends organization. I am sure most of us work at places with > >> > Friends > >> > > of > >> > > >>> the library and could see their bylaws to get some ideas. > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> Margaret Heller > >> > > >>> Digital Services Librarian > >> > > >>> Loyola University Chicago > >> > > >>> 773-508-2686 > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >> > > >>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On > >> Behalf > >> > > Of > >> > > >>> Lisa Rabey > >> > > >>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 9:39 AM > >> > > >>> To: [log in to unmask] > >> > > >>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Call for Old Conf Tshirt Logos > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Francis Kayiwa < > >> [log in to unmask] > >> > > > >> > > >>> wrote: > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> +1 > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Go for it Lisa! > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> ./fxk > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> I can start digging into the hows/whys sometime in early May and > >> > report > >> > > >>> back. If anyone has anything of interest (past C4L list convos, > >> > > >>> recommendations, etc), pass them along! > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> -- > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> Lisa M. Rabey | @pnkrcklibrarian > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > >>> http://exitpursuedbyabear.net | http://lisa.rabey.net > >> > > >>> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > >> > > >> >