On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:29 AM, Alex Armstrong <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> @Cindi: In my defense, I was being rhetorical as to why there's no plugin
> system. I wasn't trying to second-guess how you develop your products.
> Though I'm glad you're considering allowing more sophisticated
> customization for LibGuides. Navigation in particular is a thorny issue.

No worries! I hope my response didn't come off as reactionary. We are happy
to answer questions, even rhetorical ones. ;)  (I hear you, but we were
like, yeah, why *doesn't* that exist? Let's *do* it!)

As for Gist/Git, there are repos out there, 20-some of them.  We would very
much like to replace the Lounge with something else in the future, and
while I think GitHub is too high a bar for most of our users, it could play
a role in us sharing with you and vice-versa.

> There's some simple stuff thatare worth documenting. For example, Josh
> mentioned that:
> "The admin controls in LGseem to all be loaded dynamically via javascript,
> which makes them both very
> hard to customize and very easy to break. I have also noticed that
> changingthe ID of certain HTML elements in your template can have the
> unintended(and undocumented) effect of erasing particular admin features
> from your
> template."
> I've listed these IDs here:
> 9f083aa03c287931d9f0#file-required-for-admin-html

We actually had this on our list of things to add to the LibGuides
documentation. So, thanks for that, Alex! :)  I'll see that it gets
added--you're not the first one to alert us to this issue (nor was

> Any ideas on where/how we can share things like this? I tried tweeting it
> to my 6 followers. To my surprise, it was not widely reported on :p

We are happy to RT - just tag us @springshare. We also have a blog
<>, and a web newsletter that goes out to every
person with an account. I realize that this is us sharing rather than you
sharing--if something else works, go for it, and if we can help, just ask.
Keep being awesome, and know that we welcome your feedback. :)

 -Cindi :)

On 2014-09-25 23:48, Cindi Blyberg wrote:

> OK, one more tidbit on this.  I was chatting with Slaven, our CEO, and told
> him of the chatter on the list and the idea of a community-developed,
> curated set of plug-ins, along with templates, themes, etc., and he's
> totally excited about this idea.  He (and I!) would love it if you all
> would chime in on this and other ideas on the Lounge so that we can figure
> out how to make them happen.  We're going to set up a group on the Lounge
> for techie admins, but our Lounge admin is in the midst of moving so it
> might take a day or two.
> Thanks for all this great feedback, everyone!  We are listening, and want
> to make these things happen.
> -cb
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Cindi Blyberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>  Hi Alex,
>> That's a great question! I would surmise that a plug-in system and other
>> advanced tech features don't exist yet for a couple of reasons.  First,
>> we're a small company.  We have eight products and a small development
>> team; right now the priority is getting out v2 apps.  Second, we have more
>> than 4500 LibGuides customers, and some have more than one site.  The
>> vast,
>> vast majority of those folks use LibGuides out of the box, with a few
>> color
>> customizations that they accomplish with the UI (or a lot, as you've
>> seen...).  Some folks are advanced enough to figure out and alter the
>> default CSS and put their customizations in the Custom JS/CSS field.  Then
>> there is this group. :)  There are a few LibGuides admins who do
>> customization at this group's level who aren't on this list (or are you?
>> :)
>> ).
>> I'd also second the Lounge ( as a good group.
>> There's an academic libraries group there, which is quite active.
>> Cheers.
>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:07 PM, Alex Armstrong <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>  The web content workflow and governance issues that were brought up are
>>> really important. I would love to discuss them at excruciating length.
>>> But
>>> content ownership conundrums and the frustrations of WYSIWYG editors are
>>> broader issues that can be usefully taken up in other threads.
>>> I de-lurked here because I saw an opening to discuss LibGuides with other
>>> people who have a stake in it, especially as a lightweight CMS. I think
>>> Josh's description of its limitations was very good. His feature
>>> propositions, including that of a curated plugin system, were even
>>> better.
>>> I have a question though: Why doesn't it exist already?
>>> LibGuides is limited, though the v2 API looks promising for client-side
>>> stuff. We should be talking with Springshare about improving workflows
>>> for
>>> admins -- such as (an example I came across today) being able to upload
>>> more than one image at a time. And, in the meantime, there's other stuff
>>> we
>>> can do now: community docs, templates, themes, best practices, etc. I've
>>> been surprised by the lack of this material, considering how widely
>>> LibGuides is implemented.
>>> Does anyone else find this stuff interesting?
>>> Alex
>>> On 09/25/2014 05:48 PM, Cindi Blyberg wrote:
>>>  One more great guide to share - a literary journal from a k12 in
>>>> Australia:
>>>> For you LG admins out there - it's a series of RT content types that's
>>>> governed by an external stylesheet.  They have LibGuides CMS, and this
>>>> private guide is in its own group.
>>>> *back to lurking*
>>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Cindi Blyberg <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>   Jesse reminds me that I meant to point out that there is a "Paste from
>>>>> Word" button in the RTE that will strip out all that microsoft
>>>>> nonsense.
>>>>> Not quite what you were asking for (suppressing tags from the RTE--I
>>>>> passed
>>>>> that suggestion on to the devs) but it's what we refer people to who
>>>>> break
>>>>> their formatting accidentally with a massive paste.  There's also a
>>>>> "Paste
>>>>> as Plain Text" button that has a similar effect.
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Jesse Martinez <[log in to unmask]
>>>>> >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>   I can commiserate!
>>>>>> The tactic we've used at our university was to use the data migration
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> LGv1 to LGv2 as a means to convene guide authors and rethink
>>>>>> * the future overall layout of our guides (new side menu has been our
>>>>>> design choice but complicates preexisting three- and four-column
>>>>>> layouts);
>>>>>> * their intended use (pastiche of related but independent boxes on the
>>>>>> guide or something with a simple flow/concise content -- it's a
>>>>>> philosophical discussion, for sure);
>>>>>> * breakdown of content (when it is appropriate to have long detailed
>>>>>> pages
>>>>>> or break down into sub-pages, which have their own issues...);
>>>>>> *  the strict use of accessibility policies (must set up strict
>>>>>> policies
>>>>>> about funky colors & fonts, minimize use HTML tables, content column
>>>>>> layout
>>>>>> w.r.t. responsive design, etc.).
>>>>>> I feel our internal conversations and meetings about rethinking
>>>>>> LibGuides
>>>>>> v2 with our staff have gone over well, and reiterating appropriate
>>>>>> "best
>>>>>> practices" or suggestions whenever I field a LibGuides question have
>>>>>> birthed some improvements in guide construction. It's an ongoing
>>>>>> battle,
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> course!
>>>>>> There are some heavy-handed tactics in place here too. For instance
>>>>>> we've
>>>>>> hidden the Fonts button in the guide editor using CSS.
>>>>>> span#cke_12 {display:none;}
>>>>>> This doesn't stop custom html or copy/pasting Word content (ugh) from
>>>>>> getting through, but it does allows us to say, "nope, we're not
>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>> Comic Sans!"
>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Joshua Welker <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>   I lol'ed several times reading your message. I feel the pain. Well,
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>  nice to know I am not alone. You are right that this in particular is
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> organizational problem and not a LibGuides problem. But unfortunately
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> has been an organizational problem at both of the universities where
>>>>>>>  I've
>>>>>>  worked that use LibGuides, and it sounds like it is a problem at many
>>>>>>> other libraries. I'm not sure what it is about LibGuides that brings
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> the most territorial and user-marginalizing aspects of the librarian
>>>>>>> psyche.
>>>>>>> Does anyone have any positive experience in dealing with this? I am
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>  verge of just manually enforcing good standards even though it will
>>>>>>>  create
>>>>>>  a lot of enmity. LibGuides CMS has a publishing workflow feature that
>>>>>>> would force all guide edits to be approved by me so that I could
>>>>>>> stamp
>>>>>>> this stuff out each time it happens.
>>>>>>> To enforce, or not to enforce, that is the question--
>>>>>>> Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of
>>>>>>> outrageously poor usability,
>>>>>>> Or to take arms against a sea of ugly guides,
>>>>>>> And by forcing compliance with standards and best practices, end
>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>> Josh Welker
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>>>>>>> Of
>>>>>>> Will Martin
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:34 AM
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides v2 - Templates and Nav
>>>>>>>   4. Admin controls are not very granular. With most aspects of
>>>>>>> editing
>>>>>>>> a guide, you either have the option of locking down styles and
>>>>>>>> templates completely (and oh your colleagues will howl) or allowing
>>>>>>>> everything (and oh your eyeballs will scream). Some of these things
>>>>>>>> could very well be improved in the future, and some probably will
>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>  This!  My librarians have successfully resisted every attempt to
>>>>>>> impose
>>>>>>> any kind of standardization.  Visual guidelines?  Nope.  Content
>>>>>>> guidelines?  Nope.  Standard system settings?  Nope.  Anything less
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> 100% free reign appears to be anathema to them.
>>>>>>> The result, predictably, is chaos.  Our guides run the gamut.  We
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> everything:
>>>>>>> - Giant walls of text that no one ever reads.
>>>>>>> - Lovingly crafted lists of obscure library sources that rarely (if
>>>>>>> ever) bear any relation to what the patron is actually trying to do.
>>>>>>> - A thriving ecosystem of competing labels.  Is it "Article Indexes",
>>>>>>> "Article Databases", just plain "Databases", or something more
>>>>>>> exotic?
>>>>>>> Depends which apex predator rules this particular neck of the jungle.
>>>>>>> - Green text on pink backgrounds with maroon borders.  Other pages in
>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>  same guide might go with different, equally eye-twisting color
>>>>>>> schemes.
>>>>>>> I'm not even sure how he's doing that without access to the style
>>>>>>> sheet,
>>>>>>> but he's probably taught himself just enough HTML to mangle things in
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> effort to use "friendly" colors.
>>>>>>> - Some guides have three or even FOUR rows of tabs.  With drop-down
>>>>>>> submenus on most of them, naturally.
>>>>>>> - A few are nicely curated and easy to use, but they're in a distinct
>>>>>>> minority.
>>>>>>> I've tried.  I've pushed peer-reviewed usability studies at them.
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> reported on conference sessions explaining exactly why all these
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> are bad.  I've brought them studies of our own analytics.  I've had
>>>>>>> students sit down and get confused in front of them.  Nothing has
>>>>>>> gotten
>>>>>>> through, and being the only web type at the library, I'm outnumbered.
>>>>>>> Just the thought of it makes me supremely tired.
>>>>>>> I'm sorry if this has digressed.  LibGuides is not at fault, really.
>>>>>>> It's an organizational problem.  LibGuides just seems to be the flash
>>>>>>> point for it.
>>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>>  --
>>>>>> Jesse Martinez
>>>>>> Web Services Librarian
>>>>>> O'Neill Library, Boston College
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> 617-552-2509