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> The bottom line is that we need some sort of entity if we want enter into an agreement with a fiscal agent or sponsor. Otherwise, there is no "we” to enter into said agreement. I've said this before and I'll keep saying it, this is not true that you need a legal entity to have your project fiscally sponsored by a fiscal sponsor. I know of many projects (not library related, generally 'charitable') which become fiscally sponsored without having any legal incorporation or other legal entity. The project is legally a project of the fiscal sponsor. It is very common. It is a common way for "charitable" projects to start out, without legally incorporating at all, perhaps to legally incorporate and separate from the fiscal sponsor at a later date. If the people we are talking to for fiscal sponsorship are fine with this, it is a common thing. Jonathan On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > This is what the FCIG has been working on. > > The bottom line is that we need some sort of entity if we want enter into > an agreement with a fiscal agent or sponsor. Otherwise, there is no "we” to > enter into said agreement. > > Cary > > > On Jul 24, 2017, at 1:03 PM, EDWIN VINCENT SPERR <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > Again, it is great that things have worked out so well for so long. And > there is nothing about the process of formalization that requires (or is > even intended to bring about) the sidelining of the folks who have worked > so hard to make the Conferences, the Journal and everything else such a > success. > > > > > > However, there are over 3300 folks currently subscribed to the list (it > is by far the largest list that CLIR hosts), and I'm not sure about > Conference attendance, but the FCIG report tells us that "Recent total > budgets for the annual Code4Lib conference have exceeded $250,000" [ > https://wiki.code4lib.org/FCIG_Report#Description_of_Current_Practice < > https://wiki.code4lib.org/FCIG_Report#Description_of_Current_Practice>]. > Frankly, if there has *ever* been a time when we could somehow ascertain > the consensus of the entire community about "what it wants" in an informal > way, I would argue that it passed a while ago. > > > > > > There is no need for governance to imply a top-down centralization > (though formally electing Roy Tennant as God-Emperor and being done with it > is certainly an option open to us). Instead, it can be structured in many > ways as a formalization of existing practice. There is no absolutely no > reason that our existing Trustees can't be elected as officers. And when > they want to set their burden down for a bit, the Community can elect new > ones. Making this process explicit may be more trouble in some ways, but > it's also considerably more democratic. > > > > > > Not least, this is a discussion that will likely be forced upon us if we > try to proceed with partnering with a fiscal sponsor for future meetings. > Instead of just randomly copying some bylaws from somewhere, let's start > thinking about how to intentionally adopt a form of governance that > preserves the things that we currently like. > > > > > > Edwin Sperr > > > > Clinical Information Librarian > > > > AU / UGA Medical Partnership > > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> | [log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask] <mailto: > [log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Eric Hellman <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:08:31 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Governance for Code4Lib (was: What's so bad > about bylaws?) > > > > I've been pondering about this a fair amount. > > > > I don't think Code4Lib is an "amorphous entity with no systematic way of > arriving at a decision or definable point of contact". Rather, it is a > decentralized community with long-established norms and consensus-based > procedures for discerning the will of the community. > > > > The community has been able to accomplish a great deal using volunteers > and, for the lack of a better word, trustees. The trustees have been > largely self-appointed or have responded to community requests. These > trustees manage assets and capabilities for the benefit of the community. > The asset that has put the largest burden on the part of the trustee has > been the annual conference and the corresponding fiscal liabilities. > Because of the burden of this trusteeship, it has been handed off from > trustee to trustee. > > > > I think it would help if we reframed the discussion away from > "formalizing governance of Code4Lib" to "improving the fiscal continuity of > a trustee for one (or more) of the Code4Lib community assets/liabilities", > which I think the fiscal continuity group has advanced considerably. > > > > There has been some good work done in developing and documenting the > norms and procedures in our community. For example: > > > > https://code4lib.org/about <https://code4lib.org/about> > > About | code4lib<https://code4lib.org/about <https://code4lib.org/about > >> > > code4lib.org <http://code4lib.org/> > > code4lib isn't entirely about code or libraries. It is a > volunteer-driven collective of hackers, designers, architects, curators, > catalogers, artists and instigators ... > > > > About | code4lib<https://code4lib.org/about <https://code4lib.org/about > >> > > code4lib.org <http://code4lib.org/> > > code4lib isn't entirely about code or libraries. It is a > volunteer-driven collective of hackers, designers, architects, curators, > catalogers, artists and instigators ... > > > > > > https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib < > https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib> < > https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib <https://wiki.code4lib.org/ > How_to_hack_code4lib>> > > How to hack code4lib - Code4Lib<https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_ > code4lib <https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib>> > > wiki.code4lib.org <http://wiki.code4lib.org/> > > Hop into the #code4lib IRC channel and listen for a while. The > conference back channel on IRC is the most invaluable tool available to > help you quickly get the feel ... > > > > How to hack code4lib - Code4Lib<https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_ > code4lib <https://wiki.code4lib.org/How_to_hack_code4lib>> > > wiki.code4lib.org <http://wiki.code4lib.org/> > > Hop into the #code4lib IRC channel and listen for a while. The > conference back channel on IRC is the most invaluable tool available to > help you quickly get the feel ... > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 < > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5> < > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 < > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>> > > [https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD- > 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p <https://lh6. > googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD- > 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p>]<h > ttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 < > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>> > > > > Code4Lib indoctrination<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m- > 9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h. > 99orczg96qj5 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>> > > docs.google.com <http://docs.google.com/> > > How do we make code4lib a more inclusive place for newcomers? or, how do > we quickly indoctrinate newbies to our values and ways of doing things? If > any, what made you feel like an “outsider” at the Code4Lib community (IRC, > Listserv, etc)? Inside jokes in IRC or listserv suggestions? Maybe we s... > > > > [https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD- > 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p <https://lh6. > googleusercontent.com/QNBNsGIckkoGTAfhTZn3mAJGHTD- > 1AGkFTMViVGoNiYuMAADkx94tfyT-JrQgOI0y2-ilg=w1200-h630-p>]<h > ttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5 < > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>> > > > > Code4Lib indoctrination<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m- > 9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h. > 99orczg96qj5 <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1m-9VtL7L_fUxl2hTF_ > YZSdFRfucaLtmHvLSzom6XPVM/edit?pli=1#heading=h.99orczg96qj5>> > > docs.google.com <http://docs.google.com/> > > How do we make code4lib a more inclusive place for newcomers? or, how do > we quickly indoctrinate newbies to our values and ways of doing things? If > any, what made you feel like an “outsider” at the Code4Lib community (IRC, > Listserv, etc)? Inside jokes in IRC or listserv suggestions? Maybe we s... > > > > > > https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/ > master/code_of_conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/ > antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md><htt > ps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/ > master/code_of_conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/ > antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md>> > > [https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400 < > https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400>]<https:// > github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md < > https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/ > master/code_of_conduct.md>> > > > > antiharassment-policy/code_of_conduct.md at master ...< > https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_ > conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/ > master/code_of_conduct.md>> > > github.com <http://github.com/> > > antiharassment-policy - Code4lib anti-harassment policy drafting space > > > > [https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400 < > https://avatars2.githubusercontent.com/u/1158447?v=3&s=400>]<https:// > github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_conduct.md < > https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/ > master/code_of_conduct.md>> > > > > antiharassment-policy/code_of_conduct.md at master ...< > https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/master/code_of_ > conduct.md <https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/blob/ > master/code_of_conduct.md>> > > github.com <http://github.com/> > > antiharassment-policy - Code4lib anti-harassment policy drafting space > > > > > > > > It may be useful to further document Code4lib's consensus-based > procedures and policies for the benefit of legal entities that need to work > with us, but a formal governance structure for the community (as opposed to > that of an asset trustee) is something that I don't think the community > needs or wants. > > > > Also, I think the notion that we're indebted to "dumb luck" forgets that > "luck" is created by a lot of hard work. > > > > Eric > > > > > >> On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:01 AM, EDWIN VINCENT SPERR <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > >> > >> It is true that the Community has held 12 annual conferences without > formalization. And yes, it is likely *possible* to continue with the > current model of every conference being essentially a separate entity, and > support from the larger community being on an ad-hoc basis. But the reason > we are having this discussion is that this is not a particularly good > option -- it depends not only on good will, but (as Coral has noted) dumb > luck as well. It also means more stress and effort on the part of each > year's organizers than necessary. > >> > >> However, if we *do* form a relationship with another entity (or > self-incorporate), some person or persons will sign an agreement that binds > us, however you define "us", to a course of action that will likely span > several conferences. This is indeed a significantly different type of > decision than has come before, and it requires a different way of doing > business. Everybody has had a bad experience or two with bureaucracy, but > the current approach of trying to maintain Code4Lib as an amorphous entity > with no systematic way of arriving at a decision or definable point of > contact has real and tangible drawbacks. > >> > >> So, in the spirit of the current way of doing things, I propose the > formation of an ad-hoc, self-nominated committee (perhaps the last of its > kind) to investigate a formal governance structure for Code4Lib and then > assist the Community with its implementation. > >> > >> If you're interested in joining me, please contact me off-list: > [log in to unmask] > >> > >> > >> > >>> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 16:35:13 -0400 > >>> From: Adam Constabaris <[log in to unmask]> > >>> Subject: Re: What's so bad about bylaws? > >> > >>> It's an interesting question, but code4lib -- whatever exactly that is > -- > >>> has managed to make all sorts of decisions, about where to hold > >>> conferences, keynote speakers, etc. for over a decade without > formalizing. > >> > >>> I am unclear on the exact details, but there is some carryover of > >>> conference funds from year to year and if I had to guess -- and this > is a > >>> guess -- it relies on the good will of the previous year's fiscal > sponsor(s) > >>> transferring the funds to the upcoming year's fiscal sponsor(s). > However > >>> exactly that process works, it's happened multiple times at the > direction > >>> of the community; each time, though, different parties are involved. > >> > >>> The F*C*IG is attempting to address (among other things) the > tenuousness of > >>> that arrangement, and they've identified a number of proposals that > appear > >>> to yield enough formal organization to ensure continuity. The > >>> decision doesn't strike me as more momentous or different in kind from > the ones code4lib has > >>> made in the past, and shouldn't require any new mechanisms. > >> > >> Ed Sperr > >> Clinical Information Librarian > >> AU/UGA Medical Partnership > >> Athens, GA > >> [log in to unmask] | [log in to unmask] >