On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 2:45 PM Tim Spalding <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> "Mailing lists aren't what they used to be. Of the mailing lists in which I
> subscribe, zero discussion happens. There are really only announcements. I
> suppose the Code4Lib mailing list is no different."
> At the risk of starting a discussion where nobody discusses:
> 1. Why are mailing lists dead for discussion?

Many reasons, but a big one is that the purpose of electronic communication
has shifted from actual communication to personal branding. Another big one
is we define people by what they are not -- i.e. too easy for people to get
excommunicated for honest mistakes, just being different, or doing
something stupid (because that's what humans do). End result is that people
are reluctant to say anything. Another major one is the action has steadily
moved towards more social platforms. None of this is specific to code4lib.

BTW, we cement our creds as dinosaurs just by participating in this
discussion. We're basically doing the modern day equivalent of yelling at
young punks to get of our lawns.

> 2. Has discussion of the topics here moved elsewhere? If so, where and why?

As others have mentioned, the action moved to Slack, Teams, and other
forums where communications are topically more focused, less structured,
and more integrated with most peoples' personal workflows which works
better for stream of thought -- which is also truer to code4lib's IRC DNA.

Also, the good stuff doesn't happen in the open. Public forums suck for
actual discussion -- the only places I see that work are where everyone
trusts each other, and even then people seem cautious nowadays.

> 3. Is any of this about Code4Lib specifically, about libraries
> specifically, about coding and tech specifically… or is this just a symptom
> of larger phenomena? What phenomena?

It's evolution. Code4lib originated as a problem solving community
motivated by just making things work. But the academic promotion beast
which values looking excellent much more than actually being excellent
entered the room long ago and the community adapted to that. Reasonable
people can and should disagree for many reasons but that's become a thing
of the past. This is not peculiar to code4lib or libraries, and certainly
not tech.