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CODE4LIB  October 2011

CODE4LIB October 2011

Subject:

Re: Can a library automate without a computer yet?

From:

Ross Singer <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 7 Oct 2011 22:43:12 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (563 lines)

By the time you're up and running, this http://www.raspberrypi.org/
may be an option for you, as well.

A lot cheaper than an iPhone...
-Ross.

On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Well I thought that we could plug either an iphone or computer (eg netbook
> or your dev. board) into an UPS and extend the battery life that way. It
> would be on standby most of the time. The longest it would have to last
> would be a week because any on the committee could plug it in while they are
> in the library. And maybe other people could plug it in but it would have
> more chance of being left plugged in. Whatever we had would have to be
> secured and yes, it will be difficult to do and one of the reasons we do
> everything manually - nothing to steal. I used to run an undergrad computer
> lab in the 80s that was unstaffed and everything tied down. People used to
> nick the cables. I suppose the choice between an iphone and a computer would
> be price and running time on an UPS.
>
> At the moment the only access to the internet from the library is over the
> mobile phone net so whether we use computer or iphone the cost will be the
> same. They have just put up poles for fibre optic, but I've learnt not to
> hold me breath over things like that.
>
> I have to say, it seems like the librarian is starting to consider it. When
> I first brought it up 2 years ago the reaction was, we could never automate
> here! I said something the other day about it taking 3 years and she said,
> oh way longer than that. By then, who knows what there will be?
>
> On 7 October 2011 12:35, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a
>> recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more
>> expensive than regular internet collections.  This could easily run over
>> replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance.  Also, that while a
>> regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant, gold-plated
>> theft risk, in a super-portable size.  Also, there's no way you're going to
>> get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as a
>> terminal.
>>
>> - Dave Mayo
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with surge
>> > protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone told me
>> > the
>> > other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing is
>> here.
>> > One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real
>> > electrician here who understands how do do these things.
>> >
>> > At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a big
>> > overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about it, but
>> > we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we cut our
>> > losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll lose
>> > it
>> > occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and
>> > unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave Mayo
>> > pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or we
>> could
>> > use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged once a
>> > week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really want to
>> > encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library!
>> >
>> > I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. They
>> > don't
>> > know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our own
>> > system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we need.
>> We
>> > don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we
>> really
>> > need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do
>> loans,
>> > returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have to.
>> >
>> > If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Rowan
>> >
>> > On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by
>> > lightning.
>> > > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at the
>> > very
>> > > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge
>> protectors
>> > > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner?
>> > >
>> > > Nicole
>> > > MLS Student
>> > > Southern Connecticut State University
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]
>> > > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's whether we
>> > can
>> > > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in an
>> > > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks Cary
>> > > >
>> > > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not
>> necessarily
>> > > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily get
>> > > > > information about what your patrons are doing.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Cary
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner <
>> > [log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. It
>> > would
>> > > be
>> > > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it takes
>> 3
>> > > > years
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to
>> figure
>> > > it
>> > > > > out.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and
>> > emailed
>> > > > them
>> > > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. Maybe
>> the
>> > > > could
>> > > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd
>> world
>> > at
>> > > a
>> > > > > > tenth of the cost!
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee meeting
>> > > this
>> > > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and is
>> > > highly
>> > > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time
>> eight
>> > of
>> > > > us
>> > > > > sit
>> > > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they have
>> for
>> > > the
>> > > > > last
>> > > > > > 60 years!
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Cheers
>> > > > > > Rowan
>> > > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about when I
>> > say
>> > > > > >> "micro-development board":
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This
>> > > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a certain
>> > > extent
>> > > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this could
>> > > work
>> > > > > >> fairly
>> > > > > >> well as a web server for the area.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if you're
>> > > > willing
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - although, of
>> > > > course,
>> > > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise.  It won't solve the
>> > lightning
>> > > > > >> problem
>> > > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device arcing
>> > is
>> > > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board computers are
>> > low
>> > > > > enough
>> > > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run them
>> > for
>> > > a
>> > > > > long
>> > > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it when the
>> > > storm
>> > > > > was
>> > > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too, likely.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I could
>> see
>> > > > > something
>> > > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving as the
>> > > > > scanner,
>> > > > > >> for example.  You could also (if you got one with a video
>> output)
>> > > > attach
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and check-out.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might be
>> > able
>> > > to
>> > > > > get
>> > > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are several
>> apps
>> > > that
>> > > > > do
>> > > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> - Dave
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant <
>> > [log in to unmask]
>> > > >
>> > > > > >> wrote:
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet
>> figured
>> > > out
>> > > > > >> > pricing.  We are definitely considering the needs of the
>> > > developing
>> > > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet.  At this point we are most
>> > > > focused
>> > > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human
>> > > intervention.
>> > > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most
>> > > automatable
>> > > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)."
>> > > > > >> > Roy
>> > > > > >> >
>> > > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner <
>> > > > [log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > >> > wrote:
>> > > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in US.
>> > Also,
>> > > if
>> > > > > it
>> > > > > >> > will
>> > > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be at
>> least
>> > > > $700
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > >> > year?
>> > > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for first
>> > > world
>> > > > > >> > countries
>> > > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time staff
>> > > which
>> > > > we
>> > > > > >> > don't
>> > > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. There
>> are
>> > > > > probably
>> > > > > >> > 1000s
>> > > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still and
>> if
>> > > > there
>> > > > > are
>> > > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it.
>> > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > > Cheers
>> > > > > >> > > Rowan
>> > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*.
>> > > > > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just amused by
>> > the
>> > > > > typo.
>> > > > > >>  It
>> > > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page, and
>> > > perhaps
>> > > > > >> > >> elsewhere.  Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as
>> "absolutley"
>> > on
>> > > > the
>> > > > > >> > sign-up
>> > > > > >> > >> page.
>> > > > > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo
>> > > > > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant <
>> > > > [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >> > wrote:
>> > > > > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC:
>> > > > > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL)
>> > > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/
>> > > > > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is very
>> > > easy
>> > > > to
>> > > > > >> use
>> > > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities. It's
>> in
>> > > free
>> > > > > >> trial
>> > > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you
>> need.
>> > > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant
>> > > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research
>> > > > > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON <
>> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > wrote:
>> > > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs so-called
>> Web
>> > > > > >> Management
>> > > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat local.)
>> > >  and
>> > > > > circ
>> > > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud..
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070
>> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM
>> > > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]
>> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate without
>> a
>> > > > > computer
>> > > > > >> > yet?
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most
>> > community
>> > > > > >> libraries
>> > > > > >> > >> used
>> > > > > >> > >> > to
>> > > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed about 15%
>> > of
>> > > > > books
>> > > > > >> > aren't
>> > > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations. So
>> we
>> > > have
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > >> > >> > constant
>> > > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog manually.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I was
>> > > > thinking
>> > > > > >> > maybe
>> > > > > >> > >> > with a
>> > > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I didn't
>> > > think
>> > > > > >> > >> librarything
>> > > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a catalog.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon?
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Cheers
>> > > > > >> > >> > > Rowan
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo <
>> > [log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a solution
>> > > that's
>> > > > > >> > entirely
>> > > > > >> > >> > cloud
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> based.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a very
>> > limited
>> > > > > subset
>> > > > > >> > of
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a
>> LibraryThing
>> > > > paid
>> > > > > >> > account
>> > > > > >> > >> or
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation
>> > works/is
>> > > > > >> expected
>> > > > > >> > to
>> > > > > >> > >> > work
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present.  Is there a sign-out
>> > > sheet?
>> > > > >  How
>> > > > > >> do
>> > > > > >> > >> you
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage?
>> > > > > >> > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo
>> > > > > >> > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner <
>> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote:
>> > > > > >> > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but volunteers
>> just
>> > > come
>> > > > > in 2
>> > > > > >> > hrs
>> > > > > >> > >> a
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> week.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave
>> > anything
>> > > > > plugged
>> > > > > >> > in
>> > > > > >> > >> it
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> will
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in cloud
>> > > forest.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the
>> software
>> > on
>> > > a
>> > > > > >> server
>> > > > > >> > or
>> > > > > >> > >> > do
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> we
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system? Running a
>> > > > system
>> > > > > >> > >> ourselves
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> might
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme <
>> > > > [log in to unmask]
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >> > wrote:
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan-
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems very
>> > > easy
>> > > > to
>> > > > > >> do.
>> > > > > >> > >> >  There
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> are
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as Koha
>> and
>> > > > > >> Evergreen
>> > > > > >> > >> that
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> might
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs:
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time the
>> > > library
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > >> > open
>> > > > > >> > >> to
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers?  Or are you counting on borrowers
>> having
>> > > > > >> smartphones
>> > > > > >> > to
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > complete
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout?
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > --
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, Baba
>> > > O'Reilly
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner wrote:
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but if
>> > anyone
>> > > > can
>> > > > > >> point
>> > > > > >> > me
>> > > > > >> > >> > in
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> the
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction...
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't leave a
>> > > > computer
>> > > > > in
>> > > > > >> > it.
>> > > > > >> > >> Is
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> there
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > a
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and catalog
>> > in
>> > > > the
>> > > > > >> > cloud.
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and clients
>> > > access
>> > > > > >> catalog
>> > > > > >> > >> with
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >> > >
>> > > > > >> > >> >
>> > > > > >> > >>
>> > > > > >> > >
>> > > > > >> >
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Cary Gordon
>> > > > > The Cherry Hill Company
>> > > > > http://chillco.com
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

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