I agree that this thread has reached levels of toxicity that I didn't think
Code4Lib was capable of. At the risk of perpetuating the thread, I hope
that once this conversation is a distant memory, the community members who
have already been driven away will someday return to a more welcoming space.

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 2:36 PM Natasha Allen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> This would be a great round table to have at next year's conference, just
> not here. Not in this space. Not when *in this same thread* there is
> cross-talk and accusatory language. It's particularly inappropriate if
> we're not centering those who are often affected the most by these
> situations. It's so hard to gauge tone in these discussions on the internet
> and things can unnecessarily spiral, which is why I suggest a roundtable
> discussion or somewhere where survivors feel safe to speak up. I appreciate
> Sunni for bringing it up, and I agree it's important. I disagree with the
> format and how it was brought up. It's not an indictment on any one person,
> but more out of my personal concern and my desire to minimize harm to those
> directly affected by sexual harassment.
>
> Natasha
>
> ---
> Natasha Allen (she/her)
> System and Fulfillment Coordinator, University Library
> San José State University
> 1 Washington Square
> San José , CA 95192
> [log in to unmask]
> 408-808-2655
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 11:21 AM Andreas Orphanides <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't think the answer to the questions of this thread is "off-topic".
> To
> > my mind, it's not. It's been a long time since Code4Lib has been solely
> the
> > venue of people who write code in libraries, nor solely the place of
> > discussion for code in libraries. This community has grown to encompass a
> > whole host of adjacent issues, not least of which include things like
> > psychological safety, diversity, and community-building in the library
> > technology space at large.
> >
> > To that end, I think an empathetic and receptive discussion of sexual
> > harassment and assault is relevant, and necessary.
> >
> > I share many of the same concerns that a lot of people do with how
> Sunni's
> > work emerged on the mailing list. I agree with what a lot of people have
> > said about the journalism ethics issues and concerns about identifying
> > contributors. But to the credit of many community members, especially
> > Natasha, they have done a good job of reaching out to Sunni and
> > communicating those concerns. And to Sunni's credit it seems like she's
> > been receptive to those comments and will hopefully take those lessons to
> > her next article.
> >
> > As frustrating and difficult as the thread has been, however, I think it
> > would be wrong and shortsighted to use it as an excuse to shut down
> > discussion of sexual harassment in our community. It happens in our
> > workplaces and our departments. It happens at our conference. I like to
> > think that "we" are in a better place with respect to this than many
> other
> > similar communities, especially in light of things like the Code of
> Conduct
> > and our use of Community Support Volunteers at the conference, but I have
> > no direct evidence to know that we are "better" than anyone else. And I
> > don't think there's a way we could get a sense without a frank and open
> > discussion of the topic.
> >
> > I can't speak on behalf of those who have experienced harassment within
> or
> > outside of our community. But I know that they are part of our
> community. I
> > don't know how best to make Code4Lib a safe and welcoming place for them
> to
> > share their experiences, but I know that we -- especially those of us who
> > have not had these experiences -- have to do it. And I'm pretty sure that
> > shutting the door on discussion of the topic is not the way.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:55 PM Christopher R. HOFFMAN <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Richard, thank you for demonstrating why this is not a safe space
> > > for these kinds of conversations.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > On Jul 2, 2019, at 10:45 AM, richard
> > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> I know many people are ready to see this thread stop, but do you
> know
> > > of a better forum?
> > > >
> > > > You're a library information professional and don't have the skills
> to
> > > identify online forums related to libraries? Yikes! The first part of
> the
> > > name of this list is "CODE4" - that should provide adequate clue as the
> > > nature of appropriate topics for posts.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, and this is to everyone who DOES have Internet research
> skills
> > > and the capacity to infer proper topics for the list based on its name,
> > > ignore inappropriate content that you can't regulate...DON'T FEED THE
> > > TROLLS.
> > >
> >
>