LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  July 2019

CODE4LIB July 2019

Subject:

Re: Note [administratativia]

From:

Josh Welker <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:37:58 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (153 lines)

I'm just kind of shocked honestly. I have seen non-toxic discussions on
Code4Lib in the past about inclusiveness, etc.. Gender and sexual issues in
the software community has been a big topic in the media for several years
now. And it's not exactly like there is an obvious ALA SexualHarassment4Lib
listserv where this could easily be redirected. Saying you disagree with
the OP's methodology etc is all fine and good but just blanket stating that
this topic is off bounds is bewildering. I will let this die now but
honestly the attitudes expressed here leave a pretty bad taste in my mouth.

Joshua Welker
Library Systems and Discovery Coordinator
James C. Kirkpatrick Library
University of Central Missouri
Warrensburg, MO 64093
JCKL 2260
660.543.8022



On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:43 PM Andreas Orphanides <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I agree that this thread has reached levels of toxicity that I didn't think
> Code4Lib was capable of. At the risk of perpetuating the thread, I hope
> that once this conversation is a distant memory, the community members who
> have already been driven away will someday return to a more welcoming
> space.
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 2:36 PM Natasha Allen <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > This would be a great round table to have at next year's conference, just
> > not here. Not in this space. Not when *in this same thread* there is
> > cross-talk and accusatory language. It's particularly inappropriate if
> > we're not centering those who are often affected the most by these
> > situations. It's so hard to gauge tone in these discussions on the
> internet
> > and things can unnecessarily spiral, which is why I suggest a roundtable
> > discussion or somewhere where survivors feel safe to speak up. I
> appreciate
> > Sunni for bringing it up, and I agree it's important. I disagree with the
> > format and how it was brought up. It's not an indictment on any one
> person,
> > but more out of my personal concern and my desire to minimize harm to
> those
> > directly affected by sexual harassment.
> >
> > Natasha
> >
> > ---
> > Natasha Allen (she/her)
> > System and Fulfillment Coordinator, University Library
> > San José State University
> > 1 Washington Square
> > San José , CA 95192
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 408-808-2655
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 11:21 AM Andreas Orphanides <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think the answer to the questions of this thread is
> "off-topic".
> > To
> > > my mind, it's not. It's been a long time since Code4Lib has been solely
> > the
> > > venue of people who write code in libraries, nor solely the place of
> > > discussion for code in libraries. This community has grown to
> encompass a
> > > whole host of adjacent issues, not least of which include things like
> > > psychological safety, diversity, and community-building in the library
> > > technology space at large.
> > >
> > > To that end, I think an empathetic and receptive discussion of sexual
> > > harassment and assault is relevant, and necessary.
> > >
> > > I share many of the same concerns that a lot of people do with how
> > Sunni's
> > > work emerged on the mailing list. I agree with what a lot of people
> have
> > > said about the journalism ethics issues and concerns about identifying
> > > contributors. But to the credit of many community members, especially
> > > Natasha, they have done a good job of reaching out to Sunni and
> > > communicating those concerns. And to Sunni's credit it seems like she's
> > > been receptive to those comments and will hopefully take those lessons
> to
> > > her next article.
> > >
> > > As frustrating and difficult as the thread has been, however, I think
> it
> > > would be wrong and shortsighted to use it as an excuse to shut down
> > > discussion of sexual harassment in our community. It happens in our
> > > workplaces and our departments. It happens at our conference. I like to
> > > think that "we" are in a better place with respect to this than many
> > other
> > > similar communities, especially in light of things like the Code of
> > Conduct
> > > and our use of Community Support Volunteers at the conference, but I
> have
> > > no direct evidence to know that we are "better" than anyone else. And I
> > > don't think there's a way we could get a sense without a frank and open
> > > discussion of the topic.
> > >
> > > I can't speak on behalf of those who have experienced harassment within
> > or
> > > outside of our community. But I know that they are part of our
> > community. I
> > > don't know how best to make Code4Lib a safe and welcoming place for
> them
> > to
> > > share their experiences, but I know that we -- especially those of us
> who
> > > have not had these experiences -- have to do it. And I'm pretty sure
> that
> > > shutting the door on discussion of the topic is not the way.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:55 PM Christopher R. HOFFMAN <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Richard, thank you for demonstrating why this is not a safe space
> > > > for these kinds of conversations.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > On Jul 2, 2019, at 10:45 AM, richard
> > > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> I know many people are ready to see this thread stop, but do you
> > know
> > > > of a better forum?
> > > > >
> > > > > You're a library information professional and don't have the skills
> > to
> > > > identify online forums related to libraries? Yikes! The first part of
> > the
> > > > name of this list is "CODE4" - that should provide adequate clue as
> the
> > > > nature of appropriate topics for posts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, and this is to everyone who DOES have Internet research
> > skills
> > > > and the capacity to infer proper topics for the list based on its
> name,
> > > > ignore inappropriate content that you can't regulate...DON'T FEED THE
> > > > TROLLS.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

October 2024
September 2024
August 2024
July 2024
June 2024
May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager