Thanks Ross - very helpful

> That being
> said, unless you can definitely offer some other service
> besides linking to the resource, I'd avoid the resolver menu
> completely.

Agreed - this is generally envisaged as a fulltext service. I can see some benefit to other options - the Open University is almost 100% distance learning, so there may be an argument for pushing students to local library services, but in the first instance the idea is that links are to full-text or nothing.

We are also planning to include options to not display a link at all, or to use the link within the reference directly, bypassing the OpenURL method I'm proposing.

> In Moodle, it would probably make sense to link to the URL in
> the <a> tag:
> <a href="http://bbc.co.uk/">The Beeb!</a> but use a
> javascript onMouseDown action to rewrite the link to route
> through your funky link resolver path, a la Google.

I'll pass that on to the Moodle devs - the only issue I can see with this is that copy and paste is such a generic action it's going to be difficult to know whether one behaviour or the other is the best way to go. I've got some student focus groups coming up so it maybe I can explore this with them (if I've got time - there is a lot to talk to them about!)

Owen


Owen Stephens
TELSTAR Project Manager
Library and Learning Resources Centre
The Open University
Walton Hall
Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA

T: +44 (0) 1908 858701
F: +44 (0) 1908 653571
E: [log in to unmask]


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Ross Singer
> Sent: 15 September 2009 16:42
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Implementing OpenURL for simple web resources
>
> Given that the burden of creating these links is entirely on
> RefWorks & Telstar, OpenURL seems as good a choice as
> anything (since anything would require some other service,
> anyway).  As long as the profs aren't expected to mess with
> it, I'm not sure that *how* you do the indirection matters
> all that much and, as you say, there are added bonuses to
> keeping it within SFX.
>
> It seems to me, though, that your rft_id should be a URI to
> the db you're using to store their references, so your CTX
> would look something like:
>
> http://res.open.ac.uk/?rfr_id=info:/telstar.open.ac.uk&rft_id=
> http://telstar.open.ac.uk/1234&dc.identifier=http://bbc.uk.co/
> # not url encoded because I have, you know, a life.
>
> I can't remember if you can include both
> metadata-by-reference keys and metadata-by-value, but you
> could have by-reference
> (&rft_ref=http://telstar.open.ac.uk/1234&rft_ref_fmt=RIS or
> something) point at your citation db to return a formatted citation.
>
> This way your citations are unique -- somebody pointing at
> today's London Times frontpage isn't the same as somebody
> else's on a different day.
>
> While I'm shocked that I agree with using OpenURL for this,
> it seems as reasonable as any other solution.  That being
> said, unless you can definitely offer some other service
> besides linking to the resource, I'd avoid the resolver menu
> completely.
>
> -Ross.
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:17 AM, O.Stephens
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > Ross - no you didn't miss it,
> >
> > There are 3 ways that references might be added to the
> learning environment:
> >
> > An author (or realistically a proxy on behalf of the
> author) can insert a reference into a structured Word
> document from an RIS file. This structured document (XML)
> then goes through a 'publication' process which pushes the
> content to the learning environment (Moodle), including
> rendering the references from RIS format into a specified
> style, with links.
> > An author/librarian/other can import references to a
> 'resources' area
> > in our learning environment (Moodle) from a RIS file An
> > author/librarian/other can subscribe to an RSS feed from a RefWorks
> > 'RefShare' folder within the 'resources' area of the learning
> > environment
> >
> > In general the project is focussing on the use of RefWorks
> - so although the RIS files could be created by any suitable
> s/w, we are looking specifically at RefWorks.
> >
> > How you get the reference into RefWorks is something we are
> looking at currently. The best approach varies depending on
> the type of material you are looking at:
> >
> > For websites it looks like the 'RefGrab-it'
> bookmarklet/browser plugin (depending on your browser) is the
> easiest way of capturing website details.
> > For books, probably a Union catalogue search from within
> RefWorks For
> > journal articles, probably a Federated search engine (SS
> 360 is what
> > we've got) Any of these could be entered by hand of course,
> as could
> > several other kinds of reference
> >
> > Entering the references into RefWorks could be done by an
> author, but
> > it more likely to be done by a member of clerical staff or a
> > librarian/library assistant
> >
> > Owen
> >
> > Owen Stephens
> > TELSTAR Project Manager
> > Library and Learning Resources Centre
> > The Open University
> > Walton Hall
> > Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA
> >
> > T: +44 (0) 1908 858701
> > F: +44 (0) 1908 653571
> > E: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf
> >> Of Ross Singer
> >> Sent: 15 September 2009 15:56
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Implementing OpenURL for simple
> web resources
> >>
> >> Owen, I might have missed it in this message -- my eyes
> are starting
> >> glaze over at this point in the thread, but can you
> describe how the
> >> input of these resources would work?
> >>
> >> What I'm basically asking is -- what would the professor
> need to do
> >> to add a new:  citation for a 70 year old book; journal on PubMed;
> >> URL to CiteSeer?
> >>
> >> How does their input make it into your database?
> >>
> >> -Ross.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:04 AM, O.Stephens
> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>True. How, from the OpenURL, are you going to know that
> the rft is
> >> >>meant to represent a website?
> >> > I guess that was part of my question. But no one has suggested
> >> > defining a new metadata profile for websites (which I
> >> probably would
> >> > avoid tbh). DC doesn't seem to offer a nice way of doing
> >> this (that is
> >> > saying 'this is a website'), although there are perhaps
> >> some bits and
> >> > pieces (format, type) that could be used to give some
> >> indication (but
> >> > I suspect not unambiguously)
> >> >
> >> >>But I still think what you want is simply a purl server.
> What makes
> >> >>you think you want OpenURL in the first place?  But I
> still don't
> >> >>really understand what you're trying to do: "deliver
> consistency of
> >> >>approach across all our references" -- so are you using
> OpenURL for
> >> >>it's more "conventional" use too, but you want to tack on a
> >> purl-like
> >> >>functionality to the same software that's doing something
> >> more like a
> >> >>conventional link resolver?  I don't completely understand
> >> your use case.
> >> >
> >> > I wouldn't use OpenURL just to get a persistent URL - I'd
> >> almost certainly look at PURL for this. But, I want something
> >> slightly different. I want our course authors to be able to use
> >> whatever URL they know for a resource, but still try to
> ensure that
> >> the link works persistently over time. I don't think it is
> reasonable
> >> for a user to have to know a 'special'
> >> URL for a resource - and this approach means establishing
> a PURL for
> >> all resources used in our teaching material whether or not
> it moves
> >> in the future - which is an overhead it would be nice to avoid.
> >> >
> >> > You can hit delete now if you aren't interested, but ...
> >> >
> >> > ... perhaps if I just say a little more about the project
> >> I'm working on it may clarify...
> >> >
> >> > The project I'm working on is concerned with referencing
> >> and citation. We are looking at how references appear in teaching
> >> material (esp. online) and how they can be reused by students in
> >> their personal environment (in essays, later study, or something
> >> else). The references that appear can be to anything - books,
> >> chapters, journals, articles, etc.
> >> Increasingly of course there are references to web-based materials.
> >> >
> >> > For print material, references generally describe the
> >> resource and nothing more, but for digital material references are
> >> expected not only to describe the resource, but also state
> a route of
> >> access to the resource. This tends to be a bad idea when (for
> >> example) referencing e-journals, as we know the problems that
> >> surround this - many different routes of access to the same item.
> >> OpenURLs work well in this situation and seem to me like a
> sensible
> >> (and perhaps the only viable) solution. So we can say that for
> >> journals/articles it is sensible to ignore any URL
> supplied as part
> >> of the reference, and to form an OpenURL instead. If there
> is a DOI
> >> in the reference (which is increasingly
> >> common) then that can be used to form a URL using DOI
> resolution, but
> >> it makes more sense to me to hand this off to another application
> >> rather than bake this into the reference
> >> - and OpenURL resolvers are reasonably set to do this.
> >> >
> >> > If we look at a website it is pretty difficult to reference
> >> it without including the URL - it seems to be the only good way of
> >> describing what you are actually talking about (how many
> people think
> >> of websites by 'title', 'author' and 'publisher'?). For me, this
> >> leads to an immediate confusion between the description of the
> >> resource and the route of access to it. So, to differentiate I'm
> >> starting to think of the http URI in a reference like this
> as a URI,
> >> but not necessarily a URL. We then need some mechanism to check,
> >> given a URI, what is the URL.
> >> >
> >> > Now I could do this with a script - just pass the URI to a
> >> script that checks what URL to use against a list and
> redirects the
> >> user if necessary. On this point Jonathan said "if the
> usefulness of
> >> your technique does NOT count on being inter-operable with
> existing
> >> link resolver infrastructure...
> >> PERSONALLY I would be using OpenURL, I don't think it's
> worth it" -
> >> but it struck me that if we were passing a URI to a
> script, why not
> >> pass it in an OpenURL? I could see a number of advantages
> to this in
> >> the local context:
> >> >
> >> > Consistency - references to websites get treated the same as
> >> > references to journal articles - this means a single
> >> approach on the
> >> > course side, with flexibility Usage stats - we could
> collect these
> >> > whatever, but if we do it via OpenURL we get this in the
> >> same place as
> >> > the stats about usage of other scholarly material and could
> >> consider
> >> > driving personalisation services off the data (like the
> bX product
> >> > from Ex Libris) Appropriate copy problem - for resources we
> >> subscribe
> >> > to with authentication mechanisms there is (I think) an
> >> equivalent to
> >> > the 'appropriate copy' issue as with journal articles - we
> >> can push a
> >> > URI to 'Web of Science' to the correct version of Web of
> >> Science via a
> >> > local authentication method (using ezproxy for us)
> >> >
> >> > The problem with the approach (as Nate and Eric mention) is
> >> that any approach that relies on the URI as a identifier (whether
> >> using OpenURL or a script) is going to have problems as
> the same URI
> >> could be used to identify different resources over time. I think
> >> Eric's suggestion of using additional information to help
> >> differentiate is worth looking at, but I suspect that this
> is going
> >> to cause us problems - although I'd say that it is likely
> to cause us
> >> much less work than the alternative, which is allocating
> every single
> >> reference to a web resource used in our course material it's own
> >> persistent URL.
> >> >
> >> > The use case we are currently looking at is only with our
> >> own (authenticated) learning environment - so these
> OpenURLs are not
> >> going to appear in the wild, so to some extent perhaps it doesn't
> >> matter what we do - but it still seems sensible to me to
> look at what
> >> 'good practice' might look like.
> >> >
> >> > I hope this is clear - I'm still struggling with some of
> >> this, and sometimes it doesn't make complete sense to me,
> but that's
> >> my best stab at explaining my thinking at the moment.
> >> Again, I appreciate the comments. Jonathan said "But you seem to
> >> understand what's up". I wish I did! I guess that I'm reasonably
> >> confident that the approach I'm describing has some chance
> of doing
> >> the job - whether it is the best approach I'm not so sure about.
> >> >
> >> > Owen
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC
> >> 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity
> >> registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> > The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC
> 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity
> registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
> >
>


The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).