LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  September 2009

CODE4LIB September 2009

Subject:

Re: Implementing OpenURL for simple web resources

From:

Jonathan Rochkind <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:52:26 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (306 lines)

I do like Ross's solution, if you really wanna use OpenURL. I'm much 
more comfortable with the idea of including a URI based on your own 
local service in rft_id, then including any old public URL in rft_id.

Then at least your link resolver can say "if what's in rft_id begins 
with (eg)  http://telstar.open.ac.uk/, THEN I know this is one of these 
purl type things, and I know that sending the user to it will result in 
a redirect to an end-user-appropriate access URL." 

Cause that's my concern with putting random URLs in rft_id, that there's 
no way to know if they are intended as end-user-appropriate access URLs 
or not, and in putting things in rft_id that aren't really good 
"identifiers" for the referent at all.   But using your own local 
service ID, now you really DO have something that's appropriately 
considered a "persistent identifier" for the referent, AND you have a 
straightforward way to tell when the rft_id of this context is intended 
as an access URL.

Jonathan

Ross Singer wrote:
> Oh yeah, one thing I left off --
>
> In Moodle, it would probably make sense to link to the URL in the <a> tag:
> <a href="http://bbc.co.uk/">The Beeb!</a>
> but use a javascript onMouseDown action to rewrite the link to route
> through your funky link resolver path, a la Google.
>
> That way, the page works like any normal webpage, "right mouse
> click->Copy Link Location" gives the user the "real" URL to copy and
> paste, but normal behavior funnels through the link resolver.
>
> -Ross.
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Ross Singer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>   
>> Given that the burden of creating these links is entirely on RefWorks
>> & Telstar, OpenURL seems as good a choice as anything (since anything
>> would require some other service, anyway).  As long as the profs
>> aren't expected to mess with it, I'm not sure that *how* you do the
>> indirection matters all that much and, as you say, there are added
>> bonuses to keeping it within SFX.
>>
>> It seems to me, though, that your rft_id should be a URI to the db
>> you're using to store their references, so your CTX would look
>> something like:
>>
>> http://res.open.ac.uk/?rfr_id=info:/telstar.open.ac.uk&rft_id=http://telstar.open.ac.uk/1234&dc.identifier=http://bbc.uk.co/
>> # not url encoded because I have, you know, a life.
>>
>> I can't remember if you can include both metadata-by-reference keys
>> and metadata-by-value, but you could have by-reference
>> (&rft_ref=http://telstar.open.ac.uk/1234&rft_ref_fmt=RIS or something)
>> point at your citation db to return a formatted citation.
>>
>> This way your citations are unique -- somebody pointing at today's
>> London Times frontpage isn't the same as somebody else's on a
>> different day.
>>
>> While I'm shocked that I agree with using OpenURL for this, it seems
>> as reasonable as any other solution.  That being said, unless you can
>> definitely offer some other service besides linking to the resource,
>> I'd avoid the resolver menu completely.
>>
>> -Ross.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:17 AM, O.Stephens <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>     
>>> Ross - no you didn't miss it,
>>>
>>> There are 3 ways that references might be added to the learning environment:
>>>
>>> An author (or realistically a proxy on behalf of the author) can insert a reference into a structured Word document from an RIS file. This structured document (XML) then goes through a 'publication' process which pushes the content to the learning environment (Moodle), including rendering the references from RIS format into a specified style, with links.
>>> An author/librarian/other can import references to a 'resources' area in our learning environment (Moodle) from a RIS file
>>> An author/librarian/other can subscribe to an RSS feed from a RefWorks 'RefShare' folder within the 'resources' area of the learning environment
>>>
>>> In general the project is focussing on the use of RefWorks - so although the RIS files could be created by any suitable s/w, we are looking specifically at RefWorks.
>>>
>>> How you get the reference into RefWorks is something we are looking at currently. The best approach varies depending on the type of material you are looking at:
>>>
>>> For websites it looks like the 'RefGrab-it' bookmarklet/browser plugin (depending on your browser) is the easiest way of capturing website details.
>>> For books, probably a Union catalogue search from within RefWorks
>>> For journal articles, probably a Federated search engine (SS 360 is what we've got)
>>> Any of these could be entered by hand of course, as could several other kinds of reference
>>>
>>> Entering the references into RefWorks could be done by an author, but it more likely to be done by a member of clerical staff or a librarian/library assistant
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>> Owen Stephens
>>> TELSTAR Project Manager
>>> Library and Learning Resources Centre
>>> The Open University
>>> Walton Hall
>>> Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA
>>>
>>> T: +44 (0) 1908 858701
>>> F: +44 (0) 1908 653571
>>> E: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>>>> Behalf Of Ross Singer
>>>> Sent: 15 September 2009 15:56
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Implementing OpenURL for simple web resources
>>>>
>>>> Owen, I might have missed it in this message -- my eyes are
>>>> starting glaze over at this point in the thread, but can you
>>>> describe how the input of these resources would work?
>>>>
>>>> What I'm basically asking is -- what would the professor need
>>>> to do to add a new:  citation for a 70 year old book; journal
>>>> on PubMed; URL to CiteSeer?
>>>>
>>>> How does their input make it into your database?
>>>>
>>>> -Ross.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:04 AM, O.Stephens
>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>>> True. How, from the OpenURL, are you going to know that the rft is
>>>>>> meant to represent a website?
>>>>>>             
>>>>> I guess that was part of my question. But no one has suggested
>>>>> defining a new metadata profile for websites (which I
>>>>>           
>>>> probably would
>>>>         
>>>>> avoid tbh). DC doesn't seem to offer a nice way of doing
>>>>>           
>>>> this (that is
>>>>         
>>>>> saying 'this is a website'), although there are perhaps
>>>>>           
>>>> some bits and
>>>>         
>>>>> pieces (format, type) that could be used to give some
>>>>>           
>>>> indication (but
>>>>         
>>>>> I suspect not unambiguously)
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> But I still think what you want is simply a purl server. What makes
>>>>>> you think you want OpenURL in the first place?  But I still don't
>>>>>> really understand what you're trying to do: "deliver consistency of
>>>>>> approach across all our references" -- so are you using OpenURL for
>>>>>> it's more "conventional" use too, but you want to tack on a
>>>>>>             
>>>> purl-like
>>>>         
>>>>>> functionality to the same software that's doing something
>>>>>>             
>>>> more like a
>>>>         
>>>>>> conventional link resolver?  I don't completely understand
>>>>>>             
>>>> your use case.
>>>>         
>>>>> I wouldn't use OpenURL just to get a persistent URL - I'd
>>>>>           
>>>> almost certainly look at PURL for this. But, I want something
>>>> slightly different. I want our course authors to be able to
>>>> use whatever URL they know for a resource, but still try to
>>>> ensure that the link works persistently over time. I don't
>>>> think it is reasonable for a user to have to know a 'special'
>>>> URL for a resource - and this approach means establishing a
>>>> PURL for all resources used in our teaching material whether
>>>> or not it moves in the future - which is an overhead it would
>>>> be nice to avoid.
>>>>         
>>>>> You can hit delete now if you aren't interested, but ...
>>>>>
>>>>> ... perhaps if I just say a little more about the project
>>>>>           
>>>> I'm working on it may clarify...
>>>>         
>>>>> The project I'm working on is concerned with referencing
>>>>>           
>>>> and citation. We are looking at how references appear in
>>>> teaching material (esp. online) and how they can be reused by
>>>> students in their personal environment (in essays, later
>>>> study, or something else). The references that appear can be
>>>> to anything - books, chapters, journals, articles, etc.
>>>> Increasingly of course there are references to web-based materials.
>>>>         
>>>>> For print material, references generally describe the
>>>>>           
>>>> resource and nothing more, but for digital material
>>>> references are expected not only to describe the resource,
>>>> but also state a route of access to the resource. This tends
>>>> to be a bad idea when (for example) referencing e-journals,
>>>> as we know the problems that surround this - many different
>>>> routes of access to the same item. OpenURLs work well in this
>>>> situation and seem to me like a sensible (and perhaps the
>>>> only viable) solution. So we can say that for
>>>> journals/articles it is sensible to ignore any URL supplied
>>>> as part of the reference, and to form an OpenURL instead. If
>>>> there is a DOI in the reference (which is increasingly
>>>> common) then that can be used to form a URL using DOI
>>>> resolution, but it makes more sense to me to hand this off to
>>>> another application rather than bake this into the reference
>>>> - and OpenURL resolvers are reasonably set to do this.
>>>>         
>>>>> If we look at a website it is pretty difficult to reference
>>>>>           
>>>> it without including the URL - it seems to be the only good
>>>> way of describing what you are actually talking about (how
>>>> many people think of websites by 'title', 'author' and
>>>> 'publisher'?). For me, this leads to an immediate confusion
>>>> between the description of the resource and the route of
>>>> access to it. So, to differentiate I'm starting to think of
>>>> the http URI in a reference like this as a URI, but not
>>>> necessarily a URL. We then need some mechanism to check,
>>>> given a URI, what is the URL.
>>>>         
>>>>> Now I could do this with a script - just pass the URI to a
>>>>>           
>>>> script that checks what URL to use against a list and
>>>> redirects the user if necessary. On this point Jonathan said
>>>> "if the usefulness of your technique does NOT count on being
>>>> inter-operable with existing link resolver infrastructure...
>>>> PERSONALLY I would be using OpenURL, I don't think it's worth
>>>> it" - but it struck me that if we were passing a URI to a
>>>> script, why not pass it in an OpenURL? I could see a number
>>>> of advantages to this in the local context:
>>>>         
>>>>> Consistency - references to websites get treated the same as
>>>>> references to journal articles - this means a single
>>>>>           
>>>> approach on the
>>>>         
>>>>> course side, with flexibility Usage stats - we could collect these
>>>>> whatever, but if we do it via OpenURL we get this in the
>>>>>           
>>>> same place as
>>>>         
>>>>> the stats about usage of other scholarly material and could
>>>>>           
>>>> consider
>>>>         
>>>>> driving personalisation services off the data (like the bX product
>>>>> from Ex Libris) Appropriate copy problem - for resources we
>>>>>           
>>>> subscribe
>>>>         
>>>>> to with authentication mechanisms there is (I think) an
>>>>>           
>>>> equivalent to
>>>>         
>>>>> the 'appropriate copy' issue as with journal articles - we
>>>>>           
>>>> can push a
>>>>         
>>>>> URI to 'Web of Science' to the correct version of Web of
>>>>>           
>>>> Science via a
>>>>         
>>>>> local authentication method (using ezproxy for us)
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem with the approach (as Nate and Eric mention) is
>>>>>           
>>>> that any approach that relies on the URI as a identifier
>>>> (whether using OpenURL or a script) is going to have problems
>>>> as the same URI could be used to identify different resources
>>>> over time. I think Eric's suggestion of using additional
>>>> information to help differentiate is worth looking at, but I
>>>> suspect that this is going to cause us problems - although
>>>> I'd say that it is likely to cause us much less work than the
>>>> alternative, which is allocating every single reference to a
>>>> web resource used in our course material it's own persistent URL.
>>>>         
>>>>> The use case we are currently looking at is only with our
>>>>>           
>>>> own (authenticated) learning environment - so these OpenURLs
>>>> are not going to appear in the wild, so to some extent
>>>> perhaps it doesn't matter what we do - but it still seems
>>>> sensible to me to look at what 'good practice' might look like.
>>>>         
>>>>> I hope this is clear - I'm still struggling with some of
>>>>>           
>>>> this, and sometimes it doesn't make complete sense to me, but
>>>> that's my best stab at explaining my thinking at the moment.
>>>> Again, I appreciate the comments. Jonathan said "But you seem
>>>> to understand what's up". I wish I did! I guess that I'm
>>>> reasonably confident that the approach I'm describing has
>>>> some chance of doing the job - whether it is the best
>>>> approach I'm not so sure about.
>>>>         
>>>>> Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC
>>>>>           
>>>> 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity
>>>> registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
>>>>         
>>> The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
>>>
>>>       
>
>   

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager