One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a
recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more
expensive than regular internet collections. This could easily run over
replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance. Also, that while a
regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant, gold-plated
theft risk, in a super-portable size. Also, there's no way you're going to
get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as a
terminal.
- Dave Mayo
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with surge
> protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone told me
> the
> other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing is here.
> One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real
> electrician here who understands how do do these things.
>
> At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a big
> overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about it, but
> we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we cut our
> losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll lose
> it
> occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and
> unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave Mayo
> pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or we could
> use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged once a
> week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really want to
> encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library!
>
> I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. They
> don't
> know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our own
> system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we need. We
> don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we really
> need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do loans,
> returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have to.
>
> If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest?
>
> Thanks
> Rowan
>
> On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by
> lightning.
> > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at the
> very
> > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge protectors
> > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner?
> >
> > Nicole
> > MLS Student
> > Southern Connecticut State University
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's whether we
> can
> > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in an
> > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power.
> > >
> > > Thanks Cary
> > >
> > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not necessarily
> > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily get
> > > > information about what your patrons are doing.
> > > >
> > > > Cary
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. It
> would
> > be
> > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it takes 3
> > > years
> > > > to
> > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to figure
> > it
> > > > out.
> > > > >
> > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and
> emailed
> > > them
> > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. Maybe the
> > > could
> > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd world
> at
> > a
> > > > > tenth of the cost!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee meeting
> > this
> > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and is
> > highly
> > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time eight
> of
> > > us
> > > > sit
> > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they have for
> > the
> > > > last
> > > > > 60 years!
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Rowan
> > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about when I
> say
> > > > >> "micro-development board":
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This
> > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a certain
> > extent
> > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this could
> > work
> > > > >> fairly
> > > > >> well as a web server for the area.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if you're
> > > willing
> > > > to
> > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - although, of
> > > course,
> > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise. It won't solve the
> lightning
> > > > >> problem
> > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device arcing
> is
> > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board computers are
> low
> > > > enough
> > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run them
> for
> > a
> > > > long
> > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it when the
> > storm
> > > > was
> > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too, likely.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I could see
> > > > something
> > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving as the
> > > > scanner,
> > > > >> for example. You could also (if you got one with a video output)
> > > attach
> > > > a
> > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and check-out.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might be
> able
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are several apps
> > that
> > > > do
> > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Dave
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant <
> [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet figured
> > out
> > > > >> > pricing. We are definitely considering the needs of the
> > developing
> > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet. At this point we are most
> > > focused
> > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human
> > intervention.
> > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most
> > automatable
> > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)."
> > > > >> > Roy
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner <
> > > [log in to unmask]>
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in US.
> Also,
> > if
> > > > it
> > > > >> > will
> > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be at least
> > > $700
> > > > a
> > > > >> > year?
> > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for first
> > world
> > > > >> > countries
> > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time staff
> > which
> > > we
> > > > >> > don't
> > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. There are
> > > > probably
> > > > >> > 1000s
> > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still and if
> > > there
> > > > are
> > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Cheers
> > > > >> > > Rowan
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*.
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just amused by
> the
> > > > typo.
> > > > >> It
> > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page, and
> > perhaps
> > > > >> > >> elsewhere. Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as "absolutley"
> on
> > > the
> > > > >> > sign-up
> > > > >> > >> page.
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant <
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > >
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC:
> > > > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL)
> > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/
> > > > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is very
> > easy
> > > to
> > > > >> use
> > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities. It's in
> > free
> > > > >> trial
> > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you need.
> > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant
> > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research
> > > > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON <
> > > > >> > [log in to unmask]
> > > > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs so-called Web
> > > > >> Management
> > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat local.)
> > and
> > > > circ
> > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud..
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton
> > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian
> > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries
> > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122
> > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184
> > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201
> > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070
> > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM
> > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate without a
> > > > computer
> > > > >> > yet?
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most
> community
> > > > >> libraries
> > > > >> > >> used
> > > > >> > >> > to
> > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed about 15%
> of
> > > > books
> > > > >> > aren't
> > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations. So we
> > have
> > > > that
> > > > >> > >> > constant
> > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog manually.
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I was
> > > thinking
> > > > >> > maybe
> > > > >> > >> > with a
> > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I didn't
> > think
> > > > >> > >> librarything
> > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a catalog.
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon?
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > Cheers
> > > > >> > >> > > Rowan
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a solution
> > that's
> > > > >> > entirely
> > > > >> > >> > cloud
> > > > >> > >> > >> based.
> > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a very
> limited
> > > > subset
> > > > >> > of
> > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a LibraryThing
> > > paid
> > > > >> > account
> > > > >> > >> or
> > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice.
> > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation
> works/is
> > > > >> expected
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > >> > work
> > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present. Is there a sign-out
> > sheet?
> > > > How
> > > > >> do
> > > > >> > >> you
> > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage?
> > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo
> > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner <
> > > > >> > [log in to unmask]
> > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote:
> > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme
> > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but volunteers just
> > come
> > > > in 2
> > > > >> > hrs
> > > > >> > >> a
> > > > >> > >> > >> week.
> > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave
> anything
> > > > plugged
> > > > >> > in
> > > > >> > >> it
> > > > >> > >> > >> will
> > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in cloud
> > forest.
> > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the software
> on
> > a
> > > > >> server
> > > > >> > or
> > > > >> > >> > do
> > > > >> > >> > >> we
> > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system? Running a
> > > system
> > > > >> > >> ourselves
> > > > >> > >> > >> might
> > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out.
> > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers
> > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan
> > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme <
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > >
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan-
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems very
> > easy
> > > to
> > > > >> do.
> > > > >> > >> > There
> > > > >> > >> > >> are
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as Koha and
> > > > >> Evergreen
> > > > >> > >> that
> > > > >> > >> > >> might
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs:
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time the
> > library
> > > > is
> > > > >> > open
> > > > >> > >> to
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers? Or are you counting on borrowers having
> > > > >> smartphones
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > >> > >> > complete
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout?
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > --
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, Baba
> > O'Reilly
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner wrote:
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but if
> anyone
> > > can
> > > > >> point
> > > > >> > me
> > > > >> > >> > in
> > > > >> > >> > >> the
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction...
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't leave a
> > > computer
> > > > in
> > > > >> > it.
> > > > >> > >> Is
> > > > >> > >> > >> there
> > > > >> > >> > >> > a
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and catalog
> in
> > > the
> > > > >> > cloud.
> > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and clients
> > access
> > > > >> catalog
> > > > >> > >> with
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan
> > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > >> > >> >
> > > > >> > >>
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cary Gordon
> > > > The Cherry Hill Company
> > > > http://chillco.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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