So it is! It needs an external monitor that also needs power, but definitely
one to keep in mind. Thanks Ross.
On 7 October 2011 20:43, Ross Singer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> By the time you're up and running, this http://www.raspberrypi.org/
> may be an option for you, as well.
>
> A lot cheaper than an iPhone...
> -Ross.
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > Well I thought that we could plug either an iphone or computer (eg
> netbook
> > or your dev. board) into an UPS and extend the battery life that way. It
> > would be on standby most of the time. The longest it would have to last
> > would be a week because any on the committee could plug it in while they
> are
> > in the library. And maybe other people could plug it in but it would have
> > more chance of being left plugged in. Whatever we had would have to be
> > secured and yes, it will be difficult to do and one of the reasons we do
> > everything manually - nothing to steal. I used to run an undergrad
> computer
> > lab in the 80s that was unstaffed and everything tied down. People used
> to
> > nick the cables. I suppose the choice between an iphone and a computer
> would
> > be price and running time on an UPS.
> >
> > At the moment the only access to the internet from the library is over
> the
> > mobile phone net so whether we use computer or iphone the cost will be
> the
> > same. They have just put up poles for fibre optic, but I've learnt not to
> > hold me breath over things like that.
> >
> > I have to say, it seems like the librarian is starting to consider it.
> When
> > I first brought it up 2 years ago the reaction was, we could never
> automate
> > here! I said something the other day about it taking 3 years and she
> said,
> > oh way longer than that. By then, who knows what there will be?
> >
> > On 7 October 2011 12:35, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> One other thing to consider with the iPhone is that it's going to be a
> >> recurrent monthly fee, and that cellular internet tends to run more
> >> expensive than regular internet collections. This could easily run over
> >> replacement costs for a wired computer, for instance. Also, that while
> a
> >> regular computer might be a theft risk, an iPhone is a giant,
> gold-plated
> >> theft risk, in a super-portable size. Also, there's no way you're going
> to
> >> get a week's worth of service per charge out of it, while using it as a
> >> terminal.
> >>
> >> - Dave Mayo
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:41 AM, rowan eisner <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi Nicole, people here tell me that computers get zapped even with
> surge
> >> > protectors here, or even with lightning protectors. Then someone told
> me
> >> > the
> >> > other day that they need to be properly earthed and almost nothing is
> >> here.
> >> > One problem is I don't even know if there is such a thing as a real
> >> > electrician here who understands how do do these things.
> >> >
> >> > At the moment we're looking at the WSSL trial because it would be a
> big
> >> > overhead to us to run our own software when we know nothing about it,
> but
> >> > we'll still need something to connect to it. I'm thinking that we cut
> our
> >> > losses by doing it as cheaply as possible and accept that that we'll
> lose
> >> > it
> >> > occasionally - make it less worth stealing. The library is open and
> >> > unstaffed 24hrs and people say nothing keeps thieves out. But Dave
> Mayo
> >> > pointed out you can get a kind of computer in a power plug now. Or we
> >> could
> >> > use an iphone. Then they could be plugged into an UPS and charged once
> a
> >> > week. That could work. We'd still need a cage and I don't really want
> to
> >> > encourage thieves to bring welding gear into the library!
> >> >
> >> > I don't know if we're going to be able to afford the WSSL system. They
> >> > don't
> >> > know how much it will cost yet. So we could end up having to run our
> own
> >> > system anyway. Even the WSSL system is more sophisticated than we
> need.
> >> We
> >> > don't need a web site or to be able to place holds on books. All we
> >> really
> >> > need is a db with 2 tables - users and collection and queries to do
> >> loans,
> >> > returns and overdues. Hey, I could write it! But surely I don't have
> to.
> >> >
> >> > If we went with your suggestion, what software would you suggest?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Rowan
> >> >
> >> > On 7 October 2011 08:45, Nicole Miller <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Rowan, you mentioned that a computer might be stolen or fried by
> >> > lightning.
> >> > > The more I read, the more I think a computer is the way to go, at
> the
> >> > very
> >> > > least to set up the database. Is there a way you can use surge
> >> protectors
> >> > > and create a cage to go around the computer with it's scanner?
> >> > >
> >> > > Nicole
> >> > > MLS Student
> >> > > Southern Connecticut State University
> >> > >
> >> > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:50 AM, rowan eisner <
> [log in to unmask]
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Yes, I'm betting WSSL will be what we're looking for. It's whether
> we
> >> > can
> >> > > > afford it and whether we can set up a secure self check point in
> an
> >> > > > unstaffed library that doesn't have to be plugged into power.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks Cary
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 27 September 2011 07:51, Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > I'll bet that WSSL has a report generator that, while not
> >> necessarily
> >> > > > > better than the eight of you, will allow you to more easily get
> >> > > > > information about what your patrons are doing.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Cary
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:33 AM, rowan eisner <
> >> > [log in to unmask]>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > Wow, that's amazing. That certainly opens up possibilities. It
> >> > would
> >> > > be
> >> > > > > > quite a challenge to get it all working buy they reckon it
> takes
> >> 3
> >> > > > years
> >> > > > > to
> >> > > > > > barcode the books anyway, so it might keep me busy trying to
> >> figure
> >> > > it
> >> > > > > out.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > I signed up for WSSL and just said I was in Philadelphia and
> >> > emailed
> >> > > > them
> >> > > > > > and it does look like a possibility if we can afford it. Maybe
> >> the
> >> > > > could
> >> > > > > > license it out to a developing country to run it for the 3rd
> >> world
> >> > at
> >> > > a
> >> > > > > > tenth of the cost!
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Thanks so much for all your help. I've called a committee
> meeting
> >> > > this
> >> > > > > > afternoon. The librarian is very resistant to automating and
> is
> >> > > highly
> >> > > > > > skeptical that it can be made to work here. In the mean time
> >> eight
> >> > of
> >> > > > us
> >> > > > > sit
> >> > > > > > around on a monday afternoon being computers, just as they
> have
> >> for
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > last
> >> > > > > > 60 years!
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Cheers
> >> > > > > > Rowan
> >> > > > > > On 26 September 2011 09:43, David Mayo <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >> Here's an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about when
> I
> >> > say
> >> > > > > >> "micro-development board":
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://technabob.com/blog/2011/02/03/dreamplug-mini-power-plug-computer/This
> >> > > > > >> isn't the best example - it's obviously being sold to a
> certain
> >> > > extent
> >> > > > > >> as novelty hardware, and it shows, but something like this
> could
> >> > > work
> >> > > > > >> fairly
> >> > > > > >> well as a web server for the area.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> You can actually get substantially cheaper than this, if
> you're
> >> > > > willing
> >> > > > > to
> >> > > > > >> do some digging and/or do some component assembly - although,
> of
> >> > > > course,
> >> > > > > >> then your mailing expenses might rise. It won't solve the
> >> > lightning
> >> > > > > >> problem
> >> > > > > >> (which is fascinating/terrifying to me - outlet to device
> arcing
> >> > is
> >> > > > > >> freaky!), but many of the small linux single-board computers
> are
> >> > low
> >> > > > > enough
> >> > > > > >> power draw that an APC or other battery solution could run
> them
> >> > for
> >> > > a
> >> > > > > long
> >> > > > > >> time off of wall power; you'd need someone to unplug it when
> the
> >> > > storm
> >> > > > > was
> >> > > > > >> coming, but that's going to be true of the iPhone, too,
> likely.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> If you were able to find or build the right software, I could
> >> see
> >> > > > > something
> >> > > > > >> like this working as a server, with an iPod touch serving as
> the
> >> > > > > scanner,
> >> > > > > >> for example. You could also (if you got one with a video
> >> output)
> >> > > > attach
> >> > > > > a
> >> > > > > >> scanner via USB, and use it for both check-in and check-out.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> If you do go the iDevice route (or Android, etc), you might
> be
> >> > able
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > get
> >> > > > > >> away without a physical scanner attached - there are several
> >> apps
> >> > > that
> >> > > > > do
> >> > > > > >> barcode recognition through the devices' cameras.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> Hope at least some of this is helpful.
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> - Dave
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Roy Tennant <
> >> > [log in to unmask]
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > >> wrote:
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >> > From the person in a position to know: "We have not yet
> >> figured
> >> > > out
> >> > > > > >> > pricing. We are definitely considering the needs of the
> >> > > developing
> >> > > > > >> > nations but don't have answers yet. At this point we are
> most
> >> > > > focused
> >> > > > > >> > on the feature set that can be activated with no human
> >> > > intervention.
> >> > > > > >> > Looking for the intersection of the basic need and most
> >> > > automatable
> >> > > > > >> > (that probably is not a word)."
> >> > > > > >> > Roy
> >> > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, rowan eisner <
> >> > > > [log in to unmask]>
> >> > > > > >> > wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > > Ok, I tried to sign up for WSSL and you have to be in US.
> >> > Also,
> >> > > if
> >> > > > > it
> >> > > > > >> > will
> >> > > > > >> > > cost 'a cup of coffee a day' am I right that would be at
> >> least
> >> > > > $700
> >> > > > > a
> >> > > > > >> > year?
> >> > > > > >> > > That's our entire annual budget. So probably only for
> first
> >> > > world
> >> > > > > >> > countries
> >> > > > > >> > > anyway. And you're meant to have one or two full-time
> staff
> >> > > which
> >> > > > we
> >> > > > > >> > don't
> >> > > > > >> > > have. Still, I'll email them and see what they say. There
> >> are
> >> > > > > probably
> >> > > > > >> > 1000s
> >> > > > > >> > > of 3rd world libraries doing everything manually still
> and
> >> if
> >> > > > there
> >> > > > > are
> >> > > > > >> > > economies of scale we may be able to afford it.
> >> > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > > Cheers
> >> > > > > >> > > Rowan
> >> > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > > On 24 September 2011 17:10, David Mayo <
> [log in to unmask]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> It's so experimental, that it's having a Free *Trail*.
> >> > > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> That is a good suggestion, by the way - I'm just amused
> by
> >> > the
> >> > > > > typo.
> >> > > > > >> It
> >> > > > > >> > >> appears twice on this page, once on the sign-up page,
> and
> >> > > perhaps
> >> > > > > >> > >> elsewhere. Also, "absolutely" is misspelled as
> >> "absolutley"
> >> > on
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > >> > sign-up
> >> > > > > >> > >> page.
> >> > > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> - Dave Mayo
> >> > > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Roy Tennant <
> >> > > > [log in to unmask]
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >> > wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > Actually, I have an even better option from OCLC:
> >> > > > > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > Web Site for Small Libraries (WSSL)
> >> > > > > >> > >> > http://experimental.worldcat.org/lib/
> >> > > > > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > It is really aimed at very small libraries, so it is
> very
> >> > > easy
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > >> use
> >> > > > > >> > >> > but still has some basic circulation capabilities.
> It's
> >> in
> >> > > free
> >> > > > > >> trial
> >> > > > > >> > >> > mode now, so take a look and see if it does what you
> >> need.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > Roy Tennant
> >> > > > > >> > >> > OCLC Research
> >> > > > > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 12:22 AM, JONATHAN LEBRETON <
> >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask]
> >> > > > > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > You may be able to do something with OCLCs so-called
> >> Web
> >> > > > > >> Management
> >> > > > > >> > >> > System whereby your OPAC (in the form of WorldCat
> local.)
> >> > > and
> >> > > > > circ
> >> > > > > >> > >> > functions are in the cloud..
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Jonathan LeBreton
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Senior Associate University Librarian
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Temple University Libraries
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Philadelphia PA 19122
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Voice: 215-204-3184
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Fax: 215-204-5201
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Mobile: 215-284-5070
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask]
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > [log in to unmask]
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > From: rowan eisner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:51 PM
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > To: [log in to unmask] <
> [log in to unmask]
> >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Can a library automate
> without
> >> a
> >> > > > > computer
> >> > > > > >> > yet?
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Hi Dave
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > It's an honesty system, card based, the way most
> >> > community
> >> > > > > >> libraries
> >> > > > > >> > >> used
> >> > > > > >> > >> > to
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > work before computers. Because it's unstaffed about
> 15%
> >> > of
> >> > > > > books
> >> > > > > >> > aren't
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > returned but we get a similar amount of donations.
> So
> >> we
> >> > > have
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > >> > >> > constant
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > churn to take in and out of a card catalog manually.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > We need borrowers to be able to check out books. I
> was
> >> > > > thinking
> >> > > > > >> > maybe
> >> > > > > >> > >> > with a
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > scanner attached to an iphone running an app. I
> didn't
> >> > > think
> >> > > > > >> > >> librarything
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > could do circulation. I thought it was just a
> catalog.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > What do you reckon?
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Cheers
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > Rowan
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > > On 23 September 2011 21:34, David Mayo <
> >> > [log in to unmask]>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I think it's going to be difficult to find a
> solution
> >> > > that's
> >> > > > > >> > entirely
> >> > > > > >> > >> > cloud
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> based.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> What functionality do you need? If you have a very
> >> > limited
> >> > > > > subset
> >> > > > > >> > of
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> ILS/OPAC functions in mind, theoretically a
> >> LibraryThing
> >> > > > paid
> >> > > > > >> > account
> >> > > > > >> > >> or
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> similar quasi-library service might suffice.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> I'm having trouble understanding how circulation
> >> > works/is
> >> > > > > >> expected
> >> > > > > >> > to
> >> > > > > >> > >> > work
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> when librarians aren't present. Is there a
> sign-out
> >> > > sheet?
> >> > > > > How
> >> > > > > >> do
> >> > > > > >> > >> you
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> monitor for lossage?
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> - Dave Mayo
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM, rowan eisner <
> >> > > > > >> > [log in to unmask]
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Thanks Esme
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > No, the library is open all hours but volunteers
> >> just
> >> > > come
> >> > > > > in 2
> >> > > > > >> > hrs
> >> > > > > >> > >> a
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> week.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > I'm not sure how it could work but if we leave
> >> > anything
> >> > > > > plugged
> >> > > > > >> > in
> >> > > > > >> > >> it
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> will
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > get stolen or struck by lightning. We're in cloud
> >> > > forest.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > With koha and open-ils do we have to run the
> >> software
> >> > on
> >> > > a
> >> > > > > >> server
> >> > > > > >> > or
> >> > > > > >> > >> > do
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> we
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > just get an account on an existing system?
> Running a
> >> > > > system
> >> > > > > >> > >> ourselves
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > take a lot for us to figure out.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Cheers
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Rowan
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > On 23 September 2011 16:38, Cowles, Esme <
> >> > > > [log in to unmask]
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >> > wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Rowan-
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Having a hosted catalog and circ system seems
> very
> >> > > easy
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > >> do.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > There
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> are
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > several open source library systems such as
> Koha
> >> and
> >> > > > > >> Evergreen
> >> > > > > >> > >> that
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> might
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > suit your needs:
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://www.koha.org/
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > http://open-ils.org/
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Are there volunteers present the entire time
> the
> >> > > library
> >> > > > > is
> >> > > > > >> > open
> >> > > > > >> > >> to
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > borrowers? Or are you counting on borrowers
> >> having
> >> > > > > >> smartphones
> >> > > > > >> > to
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > complete
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > self-checkout?
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Esme
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > --
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > Esme Cowles <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > "I don't need to be forgiven." -- The Who, Baba
> >> > > O'Reilly
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Sep 23, 2011, at 3:27 PM, rowan eisner
> wrote:
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Apologies if this is the wrong forum, but if
> >> > anyone
> >> > > > can
> >> > > > > >> point
> >> > > > > >> > me
> >> > > > > >> > >> > in
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> the
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > right direction...
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We have an unstaffed library and can't leave
> a
> >> > > > computer
> >> > > > > in
> >> > > > > >> > it.
> >> > > > > >> > >> Is
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> there
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > a
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > way to automate
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 1) with no computer - do circulation and
> catalog
> >> > in
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > >> > cloud.
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > Volunteers
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bring in laptops to do circulation and
> clients
> >> > > access
> >> > > > > >> catalog
> >> > > > > >> > >> with
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > iphones
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > 2) that doesn't cost a fortune
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thanks so much
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rowan
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> > >> >
> >> > > > > >> > >>
> >> > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --
> >> > > > > Cary Gordon
> >> > > > > The Cherry Hill Company
> >> > > > > http://chillco.com
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
|
