Exactly - and how do we know about these ancient geographic entities (AGEs)?

They are attested in a variety of sources on various types of evidence, and it maybe useful to be able to document which "version" of an AGE you are talking about because maybe different people had different views on the matter (or different finds point to different cultures in a strictly geographic region?!)...

This is the kind of stuff that CIDOC-CRM-SIG had in mind when creating CRM because, well, that's what museum data is about...

-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ethan Gruber
Sent: 10 April 2012 00:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Representing geographic hiearchy in linked data

Ancient geographic entities.  Athens is in Attica.  Sardis is in Lydia (in Anatolia, for example).  If these were modern geopolitical entities, I would use geonames.  We're linking cities to Pleiades, but Pleiades does not maintain parent::child geographic relationships.

Ethan
On Apr 9, 2012 5:53 PM, "Simon Spero" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Are you talking about geographical entities, or geopolitical ones? For 
> example,  is there an answer to the question "what country is 
> constantinople located in?"
>
> Simon
> On Apr 8, 2012 8:02 PM, "Ethan Gruber" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > CIDOC-CRM may be the answer here. I will look over the documentation 
> > in greater detail tomorrow.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ethan
> > On Apr 8, 2012 7:56 PM, "Ethan Gruber" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > The data is modeled, but I want to use an ontology for geographic
> > concepts
> > > that already exists, if possible.  If anything, my issue 
> > > highlights the point that linked data can be *too* flexible.
> > > On Apr 8, 2012 3:54 PM, "Michael Hopwood" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think this highlights the point that, at some point, you have 
> > >> to
> model
> > >> the data.
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On 
> > >> Behalf
> Of
> > >> Ethan Gruber
> > >> Sent: 08 April 2012 15:44
> > >> To: [log in to unmask]
> > >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Representing geographic hiearchy in 
> > >> linked
> data
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the info, but it's not quite what I'm looking for.  
> > >> We've established authority control for ancient places, but I'm 
> > >> looking for
> an
> > >> ontology I can use to describe the child:parent relationship 
> > >> between
> > city
> > >> and region or region and larger region (in any way that isn't 
> > >> dcterms:partOf).  Geonames has defined their own vocabulary that 
> > >> can't really be reused in other geographic contexts, e.g. with
> gn:countryCode,
> > >> gn:parentCountry.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Ethan
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Also, there is Geonames (http://www.geonames.org), which is the 
> > >> > primary geographic data set on the Semantic Web. Here is the 
> > >> > link to
> > >> Athens:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.geonames.org/**search.html?q=athens&country=**GR<
> > http://www
> > >> > .geonames.org/search.html?q=athens&country=GR>
> > >> >
> > >> > kc
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On 4/6/12 4:54 PM, Karen Miller wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Ethan, have you considered Getty's Thesaurus of Geographic Names?
>  It
> > >> >> does provide a geographic hierarchy, although the data for 
> > >> >> Athens they provide isn't quite the one you've described:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> http://www.getty.edu/vow/**TGNHierarchy?find=athens&**
> > >> >> place=&nation=&prev_page=1&**english=Y&subjectid=7001393<
> > http://www.g
> > >> >>
> > etty.edu/vow/TGNHierarchy?find=athens&place=&nation=&prev_page=1&eng
> > l
> > >> >> ish=Y&subjectid=7001393>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This vocabulary is available in XML here:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > http://www.getty.edu/research/**tools/vocabularies/obtain/**index.ht
> > m
> > >> >> l<
> http://www.getty.edu/research/tools/vocabularies/obtain/index.html
> > >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I have looked at it but not used it; it's a big tangled mess 
> > >> >> of
> XML.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> MODS mimics a hierarchy (the subject/hierarchicalGeographic 
> > >> >> element has these children: continent, country, province, 
> > >> >> region, state, territory, county, city, island, area, 
> > >> >> extraterrestrialArea, citySection). The VRA Core location 
> > >> >> element provides a similar
> > mapping.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I try to stay away from Dublin Core, but I did venture onto 
> > >> >> the DC Terms page just now and saw TGN listed in the 
> > >> >> vocabulary encoding schemes there, so probably someone has implemented it.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Karen
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Karen D. Miller
> > >> >> Monographic/Digital Projects Cataloger Bibliographic Services Dept.
> > >> >> Northwestern University Library Evanston, IL 
> > >> >> [log in to unmask]
> > >> >> 847-467-3462
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]**EDU<
> > >> [log in to unmask]>]
> > >> >> On Behalf Of Ethan Gruber
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 12:49 PM
> > >> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> > >> >> Subject: [CODE4LIB] Representing geographic hiearchy in linked 
> > >> >> data
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Hi all,
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I have a dilemma that needs to be sorted out.  I'm looking for 
> > >> >> an ontology that can describe geographic hierarchy, and 
> > >> >> hopefully
> > someone
> > >> on
> > >> >> the list has experience with this.  For example, if I have an 
> > >> >> RDF
> > >> record
> > >> >> that describes Athens, I want to point Athens to Attica, and 
> > >> >> Attica
> > to
> > >> >> Greece, and so on.  The current proposal is to use 
> > >> >> dcterms:partOf,
> > but
> > >> the
> > >> >> problem with this is that our records will also use 
> > >> >> dcterms:partOf
> to
> > >> >> describe a completely different type of relational concept, 
> > >> >> and it
> > >> will be
> > >> >> almost impossible for scripts to recognize the difference 
> > >> >> between
> > >> these two
> > >> >> uses of the same DC term.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Thanks,
> > >> >> Ethan
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Karen Coyle
> > >> > [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
> > >> > ph: 1-510-540-7596
> > >> > m: 1-510-435-8234
> > >> > skype: kcoylenet
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
>