Hi All,

Not trying to keep this thread going on forever. But, I do want to say 
that, based on the discussion thus far, I do believe that MJ's opinion 
is in the minority. At least, from what I've heard, this seems to be the 
case.

Personally, I feel that it's absolutely wonderful that #libtechwomen has 
been created, and I think it can only benefit code4lib and other 
technology/library groups by encouraging more involvement from women & 
minorities in general.

I don't see this as a fragmentation of our community, but rather a 
natural growth into "interest/support groups" which can better 
concentrate on specific issues & provide support around such issues.

We have to admit that code4lib has grown rapidly over the years, and as 
it continues to grow it will become harder & harder to "hear" all the 
voices/opinions/issues without providing a place for discussions that is 
NOT #code4lib IRC. (No offense meant to #code4lib IRC. As a chatroom 
grows in membership, it will naturally become a bit more intimidating to 
newbies. No matter how much you try to be welcoming, no newbie wants to 
come across the wrong way / say the wrong thing in front of 100+ tech 
folks from throughout the world.)

So, yay for #libtechwomen & all those who have had the guts to get it 
started! It's obviously a much needed discussion & support space (as 
also made evident from this continued thread). I hope the code4lib 
community can encourage even more such spaces in the future.

- Tim

-- 
Tim Donohue
Technical Lead for DSpace Project
DuraSpace.org

On 12/17/2012 12:20 PM, Lisa H Kurt wrote:
> Robin ++.
>
> MJ - I can't barely respond to you. This is rather upsetting because the
> very group of people that want and need and are willing to gather to
> create such an initiative are being told no. I don't think a group that
> offers support and learning focused toward a marginalized membership base
> is discrimination. There are many women in tech groups and they exist for
> a reason and work well. People can't learn if they don't feel comfortable
> and safe. If people wonder why women feel intimidated and not part of
> things- it's this attitude right here.
>
> How sad.
>
> On 12/13/12 2:09 PM, "Robin Schaaf" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> MJ, when you put everything under Equality, it dilutes each individual
>> purpose.  I find this type of response aggravating, actually (and enough
>> that I'm actually sending an email (which I never do) about this!)
>> Women have different issues than other groups - even stuff like when you
>> have a kid and take a year off, how do you keep up on your mad
>> programming skillz?  Or program with pregnancy-brain?
>> We often have different ways to look at things - obviously not less, but
>> different. But in a predominantly male field it's easy to get lost or
>> feel like an outsider (or heck, to be assumed in marketing!)
>>
>> If you want to be inclusive, you need to have a supportive environment.
>> It's probably hard for anyone to imagine themselves a part of community
>> when being outnumbered 20 to 1, especially with responses that dismiss
>> something that multiple women are interested in.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>> MJ Ray
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 7:26 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Question abt the code4libwomen idea
>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Bess Sadler <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> There have been some contradictory statements made about
>>>> #libtechwomen because it was an emerging idea, and like code4lib,
>>>> there is no formal power structure or authority. There is no
>>>> requirement that one be female to participate, [...]
>>
>> That is good to know and a big improvement.
>>
>>>> The suggestion has been made that the name "libtechwomen" might not
>>>> be welcoming to someone who wants to participate but does not
>>>> identify as a woman. We have already discussed changing it and
>>>> welcome suggestions.
>>
>> I suggest libtechEquality - any progress with other suggestions?
>>
>> Cary Gordon <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Are there folks out there who think that you can only be in one IRC
>>> room at a time? If I want to be in the #190cmtall room, nobody in
>>> #code4lib would know, nor would it be any of their business. Are there
>>> people here who really feel threatened by this?
>>
>> That's not really a similar thing, but might indicate other problems.
>> Would we not be troubled by code4lib<anything>, just because it could be
>> kept hidden and you could use code4lib anyway?
>>
>> Regards,
>> --
>> MJ Ray
>> Setchey, Norfolk, England