Tom, Google will not tell you. The entirety of how Google search works 
is a trade secret. We don't know the algorithm for ranking, and we don't 
know what information they glean from web pages -- and they are unlikely 
to tell. It is a constant on the schema.org discussion list that 
developers want to know what Google/Bing/Yahoo/Yandex will do with 
specific information in the web pages, and it is a constant that the 
reps there reply: we cannot tell you that. The only way to find out is 
to code and observe.

kc

On 5/6/15 7:00 AM, Tom Keays wrote:
> I'd like to find out how and why Google is parsing this information. If you
> go to the the SFPL hours page (first link in the Google results), and look
> at the source code, this is all you find.
> http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=0100000101
> Is the ID in the DIV sufficient?  It would be nice to have a set of use
> cases to work from.
>
> Currently, I'm generating a weekly hours box by pulling JSONP from the
> hours API of LibCal. I could easily output this in schema.org format (and
> probably will now), but can Google pick up the information from the DOM if
> it is delivered as JSON and transformed into HTML?
>
> <div id="library-hours">
>    <h2>Hours</h2>
>    <table class="hours" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
>      <tr>
>        <th>Sun</th>
>        <th>Mon</th>
>        <th>Tue</th>
>        <th class="today">Wed</th>
>        <th>Thu</th>
>        <th>Fri</th>
>        <th>Sat</th>
>      </tr>
>      <tr>
>        <td>12-5</td>
>        <td>10-6</td>
>        <td>9-8</td>
>        <td class="today">9-8</td>
>        <td>9-8</td>
>        <td>12-6</td>
>        <td>10-6</td>
>      </tr>
>    </table>
> </div>
>
>
> On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Charlie, I don't know of any libraries that have used schema.org for
>> their web site - perhaps others do. If it is used, it should be "picked up"
>> the next time the search engines index the site. What the search engines do
>> with schema.org is not guaranteed, but can be observed. It is not
>> guaranteed because none of the search engines will say what they do, as
>> that is considered a trade secret (especially from each other).
>>
>> However, as locations and hours are important for their commercial
>> customers (stores, restaurants, etc.) I would expect that to be picked up
>> as a matter of course. Note that already locations and hours for some
>> businesses do show in the search engines, and that is for sites that are
>> not yet using schema.org, so the engines have some way of picking that up
>> from the HTML. The Google side-bar "knowledge graph" for my local libraries
>> shows " Hours <
>> https://www.google.com/search?sa=X&biw=1299&bih=561&q=san+francisco+public+library+larkin+street+hours&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDgzYHnxCXfq6-gVlZhbF5sZZ0drKVfk5-cmJJZn4enGGVkV9aVBzLKeznIsHxlTMy2S10V0iJwvZlMgBPWBDOSAAAAA&ei=qhlKVcKWJ8b7oQS65oCQCA&ved=0CJgBEOgTMBA>:
>>
>> Open today · 9:00 am – 8:00 pm <javascript:void(0)>
>> " but I have no idea where that comes from.
>>
>> kc
>>
>>
>> On 5/6/15 5:22 AM, Charlie Morris wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious, Karen, Ethan or anyone else, do you know of any examples of
>>> libraries that have implemented schema.org or RDFa for hours data and
>>> have
>>> noticed that Google or some other search engine has picked it up (i.e.,
>>> correctly displaying that data as part of the search results)?  And if so,
>>> how quickly will Google or the like pickup on changes to hours (i.e.,
>>> shifting between semesters or unplanned changes)?
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 8:15 AM, Ethan Gruber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>   +1 on the RDFa and schema.org. For those that don't know the library URL
>>>> off-hand, it is much easier to find a library website by Googling than it
>>>> is to go through the central university portal, and the hours will show
>>>> up
>>>> at the top of the page after having been harvested by search engines.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Note that library hours is one of the possible bits of information that
>>>>> could be encoded as RDFa in the library web site, thus making it
>>>>> possible
>>>>> to derive library hours directly from the listing of hours on the web
>>>>>
>>>> site
>>>>
>>>>> rather than keeping a separate list. Schema.org does have the elements
>>>>>
>>>> such
>>>>
>>>>> that hours can be encoded. This would mean that hours could show in the
>>>>> display of the library's catalog entry on Google, Yahoo and Bing. Being
>>>>> available directly through the search engines might be sufficient, not
>>>>> necessitating creating yet-another-database for that data.
>>>>>
>>>>> Schema.org uses a restaurant as its opening hours example, but much of
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> data would be the same for a library:
>>>>>
>>>>> <div vocab="http://schema.org/" typeof="Restaurant">
>>>>>     <span property="name">GreatFood</span>
>>>>>     <div property="aggregateRating"  typeof="AggregateRating">
>>>>>       <span property="ratingValue">4</span> stars -
>>>>>       based on <span property="reviewCount">250</span> reviews
>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>     <div property="address"  typeof="PostalAddress">
>>>>>       <span property="streetAddress">1901 Lemur Ave</span>
>>>>>       <span property="addressLocality">Sunnyvale</span>,
>>>>>       <span property="addressRegion">CA</span> <span
>>>>> property="postalCode">94086</span>
>>>>>     </div>
>>>>>     <span property="telephone">(408) 714-1489</span>
>>>>>     <a property="url" href="http://www.dishdash.com">www.greatfood.com
>>>>> </a>
>>>>>     Hours:
>>>>>     <meta property="openingHours" content="Mo-Sa 11:00-14:30">Mon-Sat
>>>>> 11am
>>>>>
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>>> 2:30pm
>>>>>     <meta property="openingHours" content="Mo-Th 17:00-21:30">Mon-Thu
>>>>> 5pm -
>>>>> 9:30pm
>>>>>     <meta property="openingHours" content="Fr-Sa 17:00-22:00">Fri-Sat
>>>>> 5pm -
>>>>> 10:00pm
>>>>>     Categories:
>>>>>     <span property="servesCuisine">
>>>>>       Middle Eastern
>>>>>     </span>,
>>>>>     <span property="servesCuisine">
>>>>>       Mediterranean
>>>>>     </span>
>>>>>     Price Range: <span property="priceRange">$$</span>
>>>>>     Takes Reservations: Yes
>>>>> </div>
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to me that using schema.org would get more bang for the buck
>>>>> --
>>>>> it would get into the search engines and could also be aggregated into
>>>>> whatever database is needed. As we've seen with OCLC, having a separate
>>>>> listing is likely to mean that the data will be out of date.
>>>>>
>>>>> kc
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/5/15 2:19 PM, nitin arora wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   I can't see they distinguished between public libraries and other types
>>>>> on
>>>>> their campaign page.
>>>>>> They say " all libraries" as far as I can see.
>>>>>> So I suppose then that this is true for "all libraries":
>>>>>> "Libraries offer a space anyone can enter, where money isn't exchanged,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> documentation doesn't have to be shown."
>>>>>> Who knew fines and library/student-IDs were a thing of the past?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only data sets I can find where they got the 17,000 number is for
>>>>>> public libraries:
>>>>>> http://www.imls.gov/research/pls_data_files.aspx
>>>>>> Maybe I missed something.
>>>>>> There is an hours field on one of the CSVs I downloaded, etc for 2012
>>>>>>
>>>>> data
>>>>> (the most recent I could find).
>>>>>> Asking 10k for something targeted for completion in June and without a
>>>>>> grasp on what types of libraries there are and how volatile the hours
>>>>>> information is (especially in crisis) ...
>>>>>> Sounds naive at best, sketchy at worst.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "flexible funding" button says "this campaign will receive all
>>>>>> funds
>>>>>> raised even if it does not reach its goals".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The value of these places for youth cannot be underestimated."
>>>>>> So is the value of a quick buck ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 4:53 PM, McCanna, Terran <
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I'm not at all surprised that this doesn't already exist, and even if
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OCLC's was available, I'd be willing to bet it was out of date.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Public library hours, especially in underfunded areas, may fluctuate
>>>>>>> depending on funding cycles, seasons (whether school is in or out),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> etc.,
>>>>> not to mention closing/reopening/moving because of old buildings that
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to be updated. We have around 280 locations in our consortium and we
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> have
>>>>> to rely on self-reporting to find out if their hours change. We
>>>>>> certainly
>>>>> don't have staff time to check every one of their web sites on regular
>>>>>>> basis, I can't imagine keeping track of 17,000!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Terran McCanna
>>>>>>> PINES Program Manager
>>>>>>> Georgia Public Library Service
>>>>>>> 1800 Century Place, Suite 150
>>>>>>> Atlanta, GA 30345
>>>>>>> 404-235-7138
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Peter Murray" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 4:36:56 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Library Hours
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OCLC has an institutional registry [1], which had (in part) library
>>>>>>> hours,
>>>>>>> addresses, and so forth.  It seems to be unavailable, though [2].
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the only systematic collection of library hours data that I know
>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://www.oclc.org/worldcat-registry.en.html
>>>>>>> [2] https://www.worldcat.org/registry/institution/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    On May 5, 2015, at 4:16 PM, Bigwood, David <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   This looks like a decent group, but I find this statement hard to
>>>>>>>>   believe.
>>>>>>>   "Your tax-deductible donation supports adding the names, address and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>> hours of operation of all libraries to Range. The Institute of Museum
>>>>>> and
>>>>> Library Services publishes an open data catalog which is the source
>>>>>> we'll
>>>>> use for the names and the addresses of the nation's libraries. However,
>>>>>>> there isn't a listing of the days and hours of operation for all
>>>>>>> libraries
>>>>>>> in the US. We are going to track down the hours of operation for all
>>>>>>> 17,000
>>>>>>> libraries and make that information available -- in Range and for
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> developers who may want to use it."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/range-food-and-safe-places-for-youth
>>>>
>>>>> Are the hours of public libraries really not available?
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> David Bigwood
>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>> Lunar and Planetary Institute
>>>>>>>> @LPI_Library
>>>>>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/lunarandplanetaryinstitute/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>   --
>>>>> Karen Coyle
>>>>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
>>>>> m: +1-510-435-8234
>>>>> skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> --
>> Karen Coyle
>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
>> m: +1-510-435-8234
>> skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>>

-- 
Karen Coyle
[log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
m: +1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600