LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  January 2018

CODE4LIB January 2018

Subject:

Re: BIBFRAME nesting question

From:

Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:26:41 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (315 lines)

Stuart, I think it goes the other way - every instance of the complete
works (aka a new publication of that) is also an instance of some
expression of the work of each play. Note that such compilations do not
have a good solution (yet?) in the FRBR/FRBR-LRM world. The solution
that the original FRBR group came up with [1] was that every
manifestation with multiple works/expressions is both:

- an expression of a work in its own right. Thus, the Complete works is
itself an expression and a work
- multiple links to individual expressions/works

My theory on this is that the underlying problem is that manifestations
are NOT expressions of a work, but are packages that can have an
expression or more, plus other things, like introductions, indexes, etc.
It doesn't make sense to me to consider that there is a progression from
expression to manifestation without adding in the package aspect, which
is what publishing adds.

But this gets really head-bangingly hard pretty quickly. Just to say
that we should not assume that FRBR actually works with real data - it
was never tested as such.

kc
[1]
https://www.ifla.org/files/assets/cataloguing/frbrrg/AggregatesFinalReport.pdf

On 1/18/18 12:17 PM, Stuart A. Yeates wrote:
>> I
>> haven't thought this through but because BF combines the FRBR work and
>> expression into a single entity, it may be safe to say that no BF
>> instance can be an instanceOf more than one BF work.
>
> Isn't every edition of 'Complete Works of Shakespeare' an instanceOf each
> of the plays?
>
> cheers
> stuart
> --
> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky
>
> On 19 January 2018 at 08:49, Karen Coyle <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Joshua,
>>
>> Yes, as Nate says, those examples on my site are from quite a while ago,
>> and come out of an early MARC -> BFv1 converter.
>>
>> I don't how BF decides what gets a URI vs. what is a blank node (and I
>> find it to be heavy on blank nodes, which may reflect an XML development
>> environment). I do know that the FRBR model treats each bibliographic
>> entity (WEMI) as a top-level "thing". FRBR also explicitly rejects the
>> idea that the whole WEMI can be expressed with a single URI.[0] That
>> seems extreme, but in fact in FRBR there are many-to-many relationships
>> between works and expressions, so it isn't a hierarchy but a graph. I
>> haven't thought this through but because BF combines the FRBR work and
>> expression into a single entity, it may be safe to say that no BF
>> instance can be an instanceOf more than one BF work. However, any BF
>> work can have more than one instance, so the "super-set" identifier
>> becomes difficult.
>>
>> My gut feeling is that you should analyze your own data based on your
>> own use cases and then posit a model - so that your ideas are clear
>> before you step into the morass of BF assumptions (many of which do not
>> appear to be directly articulated in the public documentation). If you
>> find that your use cases are not served by BF, PLEASE bring that to the
>> attention of the community working on BF and LD4P [1]. There are aspects
>> of the BF development that may meet the needs of some but not all,
>> because the range of experiences is still limited. More voices are a
>> Good Thing.
>>
>> kc
>> [0] For more than you ever wanted to know, look at part II of
>> http://kcoyle.net/beforeAndAfter/index.html
>> [1] https://wiki.duraspace.org/display/LD4P
>>
>> On 1/18/18 11:26 AM, Josh Welker wrote:
>>> Okay, thanks all. I will set up the code to split the entities into
>>> different files. Is there a rule of thumb for when a Thing needs to be
>>> split out into a different file with its own URI vs being a blank node?
>> For
>>> instance, maybe blank nodes one level deep are okay but nested ones are
>>> not. But I don't see the point of making a URI for the Title of a
>> yearbook,
>>> for instance, when virtually no one is ever going to reference the Title
>>> outside the context of the larger Work or Instance.
>>>
>>> Joshua Welker
>>> Information Technology Librarian
>>> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
>>> University of Central Missouri
>>> Warrensburg, MO 64093
>>> JCKL 2260
>>> 660.543.8022
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Trail, Nate <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just to note, that is a BIBFRAME1 vocab example. You can tell because
>> the
>>>> namespace is http://bibframe.org/vocab...
>>>>
>>>> You could certainly extract them and post them to their own end points,
>>>> but you have to decide how to make the uris unique in your endpoint
>> area:
>>>> Karen's had a unique uri for the Work: http://id/test/C:\Users\
>>>> deborah\Documents\OxygenXMLDeveloper\samples14107665 , but nothing for
>>>> the Instance.
>>>>
>>>> If she wanted, she could have posted the Work part to
>>>> http://kcoyle.net/bibframe/works/samples1410665
>>>> And she could have posted the Instance part to
>> http://kcoyle.net/bibframe/
>>>> instances/samples1410665 (and changed the bf:Instance bf:instanceOf
>>>> address to the new work URI).
>>>>
>>>> <bf:instanceOf rdf:resource="http://kcoyle.net/bibframe/works/
>>>> samples1410665 "/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BY the way, the bf2 version is comparable here (if I'm right that the
>>>> number is the LC voyager bib id):
>>>>
>>>> Id.loc.gov/tools/bibframe/compare-id/full-rdf?find=14107665 or
>>>> Id.loc.gov/tools/bibframe/compare-id/full-ttlf?find=14107665
>>>> It's also available for extraction and use here:
>>>> http://lx2.loc.gov:210/LCDB?query=rec.id=14107665&
>> recordSchema=bibframe2a&
>>>> maximumRecords=1
>>>>
>>>> Making things even more interesting, this one also has embedded Work
>>>> descriptions :
>>>> <bf:Work rdf:about="http://bibframe.example.org/14107665#Work740-46" >
>>>> <rdfs:label >Blest pair of sirens.</rdfs:label>
>>>>
>>>> They are pretty skimpy but could be used as stub descriptions and given
>>>> their own identity (uri) until such time as they can be reconciled to an
>>>> existing description or be more fully cataloged to stand on their own.
>>>>
>>>> Nate
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>> Nate Trail
>>>> Network Development & MARC Standards Office
>>>> LS/ABA/NDMSO
>>>> LA308, Mail Stop 4402
>>>> Library of Congress
>>>> Washington DC 20540
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>>> Josh Welker
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 1:03 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] BIBFRAME nesting question
>>>>
>>>> Stephen,
>>>>
>>>> I've looked at Karen Coyle's examples in the past. They are extremely
>>>> helpful for figuring out how to structure the BIBFRAME record, but my
>>>> question is more about how the BIBFRAME model interfaces with the
>> semantic
>>>> web as a whole. As you mentioned, Karen's examples, like the LC examples
>>>> Nate mentioned, have both Work and Instance objects at the top level.
>> To my
>>>> (limited) understanding, that makes them suitable for ingestion into a
>>>> local system for indexing but not necessarily as URI endpoints. For
>>>> example, if I were to reference http://kcoyle.net/bibframe/sr.rdf.xml
>> in
>>>> another RDF document, how would an application know if I am referencing
>> the
>>>> Work or the Instance?
>>>>
>>>> Joshua Welker
>>>> Information Technology Librarian
>>>> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
>>>> University of Central Missouri
>>>> Warrensburg, MO 64093
>>>> JCKL 2260
>>>> 660.543.8022
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:55 AM, McDonald, Stephen <
>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Karen Coyle has some examples on her page:
>> http://kcoyle.net/bibframe/.
>>>>> Your option #2 appears to be similar to the output in her examples,
>>>>> although her examples do not include the Item level. You can also
>>>>> find conversion programs on the BibFrame website which will let you
>>>>> convert MARC records and see what they look like in BibFrame RDF/XML.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve McDonald
>>>>>
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Josh Welker
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 12:08 PM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] BIBFRAME nesting question
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess I am trying to figure out what the well-defined view looks
>>>>> like. I can't find examples that contain Work, Instance, and Item
>>>>> within the same RDF document at the same URI. In fact, the examples
>>>>> section on the LC BIBFRAME 2.0 website is blank, and the links for
>>>> BIBFRAME 1.0 are all dead.
>>>>> I certainly am not trying to reinvent anything, which is why I am
>>>>> posting here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua Welker
>>>>> Information Technology Librarian
>>>>> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
>>>>> University of Central Missouri
>>>>> Warrensburg, MO 64093
>>>>> JCKL 2260
>>>>> 660.543.8022
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:00 AM, McDonald, Stephen <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BibFrame already has an RDF view which is well-defined. Are you
>>>>>> trying to come up with your own RDF model for BibFrame data?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve McDonald
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of Josh Welker
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 11:28 AM
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: [CODE4LIB] BIBFRAME nesting question
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a question about how to model a resource expressed in BIBFRAME.
>>>>>> We are digitizing some unique collections. Ideally, I'd like to have
>>>>>> one URI like http://example.org/myuri that returns one RDF document
>>>>>> containing data about the Work, the Instance, and the Item. There
>>>>>> are two ways I could do
>>>>>> this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Use Work as the parent type and include the Instance as a child
>>>>>> blank node using the Work.expressionOf property, and then include
>>>>>> the Item as a second-level child node using the Instance.hasItem
>>>> property.
>>>>> Example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bf:Work:
>>>>>> bf:title: [title node here]
>>>>>> bf:hasInstance:
>>>>>> bf:Instance:
>>>>>> bf:bookFormat: [bookFormat node here]
>>>>>> bf:hasItem:
>>>>>> bf:Item:
>>>>>> bf:shelfMarker: [shelfMarker node here]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Use some parent container class like rdf:Description and include
>>>>>> the Work, Instance, and item as immediate children blank nodes of
>>>>>> that container. Example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rdf:Description:
>>>>>> bf:Work:
>>>>>> bf:title: [title node here]
>>>>>> bf:Instance:
>>>>>> bf:bookFormat: [bookFormat node here]
>>>>>> bf:Item
>>>>>> bf:shelfMarker: [shelfMarker node here]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. If neither 1 nor 2 are acceptable, I could have separate URI
>>>>>> endpoints for the Work, Instance, and Item. This has the advantage
>>>>>> of using less blank nodes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://example.org/myuri_Work
>>>>>> http://example.org/myuri_Instance
>>>>>> http://example.org/myuri_Item
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really prefer option 3 the least, but I am very uncertain between
>>>>>> 1 and 2. Thoughts on which is best practice? If 2, what should I use
>>>>>> as the container class? And in any case, how much should I worry
>>>>>> about the proliferation of blank nodes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joshua Welker
>>>>>> Information Technology Librarian
>>>>>> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
>>>>>> University of Central Missouri
>>>>>> Warrensburg, MO 64093
>>>>>> JCKL 2260
>>>>>> 660.543.8022
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Karen Coyle
>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
>> m: +1-510-435-8234
>> skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
>>

--
Karen Coyle
[log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
m: +1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager