Richard: I am not clear why an earnest question about where to seek
appropriate forums was met with such hostility. Further, the suggestion
that a library coding world should live exclusive of equity discussions is
concerning. I encourage reading anything by Safiya Noble, Jessie Daniels,
and Wendy Chun, all of whom address inequality in coding and coding
communities. Am happy to provide citations to anyone.

Thank you to the more charitable and thoughtful commenters here.

-debbie

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:45 PM Lia Ryland <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I agree with Natasha.  I'd prefer this kind of discussion in a structured
> setting with support.
>
> -Lia Ryland
>
> Cataloging Library
> San Francisco State University
> [log in to unmask]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Natasha
> Allen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2019 10:39 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Note [administratativia]
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Perhaps the ALA forums? I can't remember off the top of my head if you
> have to be a member of ALA to post or not but that seems like a good place
> to start. They have a general board and people post lots of things there.
> Although i have to say, I ultimately disagree with the manner in which
> this is being discussed (in a forum thread). I'm sure others may have more
> suggestions. I think this is absolutely an important discussion to have
> here but perhaps in a structured, official manner such as a roundtable in
> conjunction with an organization such as RAINN. The dangers of "unofficial"
> one-off threads like this one is that at best, not a whole lot gets done
> and it is triggering for folks unnecessarily, and at worst it can devolve
> into mudslinging and doxxing. Not that I think this would actually happen
> here, but I've seen it happen elsewhere, which is why i think it should be
> done in a structured manner with known entities. Again, i only speak for
> myself, so i'm happy to hear from others for other ideas.
>
> Best,
>
> Natasha
>
> ---
> Natasha Allen (she/her)
> System and Fulfillment Coordinator, University Library San José State
> University
> 1 Washington Square
> San José , CA 95192
> [log in to unmask]
> 408-808-2655
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 10:30 AM Chris Hoffman <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Natasha,
> >
> > I know many people are ready to see this thread stop, but do you know
> > of a better forum? code4lib is pretty much the main library-IT list I
> belong to.
> > If there’s another place where these important issues can be
> > discussed, I’d be happy to join that too. Thanks in advance for any
> recommendation.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Chris Hoffman, Ph.D.
> > Associate Director, Research IT
> > Program Director, Research Data Management <
> > http://researchdata.berkeley.edu/> & Informatics Services UC Berkeley
> > [log in to unmask]
> > 510-256-9643
> >
> > > On Jul 2, 2019, at 10:06 AM, Natasha Allen <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Josh,
> > >
> > > Great question. I won't speak for the entire group, only for myself,
> > > but other than being entirely off-topic, there are at least a few of
> > > us who have expressed concerns regarding the mix of the subject
> > > matter and the lack of transparency surrounding the author. The
> > > initial request for
> > survey
> > > participants and subsequent article did not follow certain
> > > journalistic protocols/standards (and frankly looked like spam to
> > > me), which led to
> > some
> > > distrust of the motives of the individual requesting this sensitive
> > > information. I have spoken to Sunni directly off-list about my
> > > concerns
> > so
> > > I won't rehash what we discussed there, but suffice it to say, there
> > > are ways to handle sensitive subjects and this is not one of them.
> > > This is
> > an
> > > important topic, and one that should be addressed with great care. I
> > think
> > > they appear to be well-meaning but it's not, I think, the best forum
> > > for such discussions. I hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Natasha
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Natasha Allen (she/her)
> > > System and Fulfillment Coordinator, University Library San José
> > > State University
> > > 1 Washington Square
> > > San José , CA 95192
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > 408-808-2655
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:54 AM Josh Welker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I am actually quite confused about why the Code4Lib community is
> > >> acting
> > so
> > >> annoyed by this topic. I am totally ignorant of the background
> > >> here. Is
> > the
> > >> frustration with the topic itself or with this person?
> > >>
> > >> Joshua Welker
> > >> Library Systems and Discovery Coordinator James C. Kirkpatrick
> > >> Library University of Central Missouri Warrensburg, MO 64093 JCKL
> > >> 2260
> > >> 660.543.8022
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 11:48 AM Forrest, Stuart
> > >> <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Agreed!
> > >>>
> > >>> Stuart Forrest PhD, Library IT Manager/Analyst Beaufort County
> > >>> Library System
> > >>> 311 Scott Street, Beaufort, SC 29902
> > >>> 843 255 6450
> > >>> [log in to unmask]
> > >>> beaufortcountylibrary.org
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of
> > Andrew L
> > >>> Hickner
> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2019 12:43 PM
> > >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Note [administratativia]
> > >>>
> > >>> This entire thread is completely off-topic and becoming a nuisance
> > >>> to
> > the
> > >>> community.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Andy Hickner, MSI
> > >>> Health Sciences Librarian
> > >>> Seton Hall University | Interprofessional Health Sciences Campus
> > >>> [log in to unmask] | 1-973-542-6973
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2flibrary.shu.edu%2fi
> > hs&c=E,1,ijKkfXu9kMXX98xSfNwG_SOgresTUy06uscOzPTNeY5Q1MNYt1iHNXDLKdrT7
> > MVwoiDet9tnx3h1UmZOm9qWoV_6OzfAz8RuRay7eIdyG4iwUDoPHQyzVQA,&typo=1
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of S
> > >>> B
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2019 6:00 PM
> > >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Note [administratativia]
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, props to ALA about recognizing Dewey.
> > >>>
> > >>> You don’t have to agree with my petition or think of it as useful.
> > >>>
> > >>> In the spirit of talking strategies, what do you see as effective
> > >>> strategies for the library profession making sexual harassment
> > awareness
> > >> a
> > >>> top priority?
> > >>>
> > >>> Sunni
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Jun 30, 2019, at 4:31 PM, Stuart A. Yeates <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In the spirit of fixing actual things that need to be fixed, I'd
> > >>>> like to point out the really positive news out of the ALA about
> > >>>> them recognising Dewey
> > >>>> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > >>>> Fwww
> > .
> > >>>> theguardian.com
> > %2Fbooks%2F2019%2Fjun%2F27%2Fmelvil-deweys-name-strippe
> > >>>> d-from-top-librarian-award&amp;data=01%7C01%7Candrew.hickner%
> > 40SHU.EDU
> > >>>> %7Cad30d04da4fb4086e94608d6fda65cdc%7C51f07c2253b744dfb97ca13261d
> > >>>> 71075
> > >>>> %7C1&amp;sdata=9l4mqVuOxapKNIpP5%2BORFY3OHCSjEt09SiPunDDxhKI%3D&a
> > >>>> mp;re
> > >>>> served=0 and AAAS about them recognising issues with current
> > >>>> fellows
> > >>>> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > >>>> Fwww
> > .
> > >>>> the-scientist.com
> > %2Fnews-opinion%2Fpetition-asks-aaas-to-remove-fellow
> > >>>> s-with-sexual-harassment-records-64488&amp;data=01%7C01%7Candrew.
> > >>>> hickn
> > >>>> er%40SHU.EDU
> > %7Cad30d04da4fb4086e94608d6fda65cdc%7C51f07c2253b744dfb97c
> > >>>> a13261d71075%7C1&amp;sdata=iajDSIBWzDEamZJRz8Tlu79wmVKQWqRtzY733M
> > >>>> Pxq%2
> > >>>> BU%3D&amp;reserved=0 Both of these are the result of concerted
> > >>>> campaigns over several years by groups of named individuals with
> > >>>> clear, concrete, goals in mind and explicit strategies of how to
> > >>>> get there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Without a doubt things need to improve in libraries, but I don't
> > >>>> see petitions such as this an effective method of improving them.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If there is anyone wanting to discuss strategies, my emails are
> open.
> > >>>> Publicising locally the two recent advances mentioned above is
> > >>>> going to be on my to-do list.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> cheers
> > >>>> stuart
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 23:12, Eric Lease Morgan <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 27, 2019, at 11:13 PM, S B <
> > >>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Dear Library Community,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have always known the library community to be forward
> > >>>>>> thinking and
> > >>> helpful.  Through this journey of writing about sexual harassment
> > >>> in libraries, I have become concerned about the lack of sexual
> > >>> harassment awareness trainings and open and positive dialogue on the
> subject.
> > Yes,
> > >>> articles have been written.  Yes, some individual libraries as
> > >>> well as
> > >> some
> > >>> systems and associations are doing training and having conversation.
> > >> That
> > >>> is great and should not be overlooked.  In many cases, though, it
> > >>> is
> > the
> > >>> exact opposite.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In a profession that is so progressive, why does sexual
> > >>>>>> harassment
> > >>> awareness seem to take a back seat?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I created a petition about sexual harassment awareness in
> libraries.
> > >>> Would you consider signing and sharing? You don’t have to be in
> > >>> the
> > >> library
> > >>> profession to sign.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thank you for your consideration of this request.  Many Thanks!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Petition Link:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fchn
> > >>>>>> g.it%2FPzRB4BQp5f&amp;data=01%7C01%7Candrew.hickner%40SHU.EDU
> > %7Cad30
> > >>>>>> d04da4fb4086e94608d6fda65cdc%7C51f07c2253b744dfb97ca13261d71075
> > >>>>>> %7C1&
> > >>>>>> amp;sdata=uCY0g6DateauqIHdB5FC9RxVqbmLeVEiHTERLXu%2FJd4%3D&amp;
> > >>>>>> reser
> > >>>>>> ved=0
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> If the sorts of notes above persist, then I will look into their
> > >>>>> whereabouts & see if we can get rid of them. Now back to our
> > >>>>> regular programming. --Eric Morgan, List Owner
> > >>> ** WARNING: This email originated from outside of Seton Hall
> > University.
> > >>> Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the
> > >>> sender
> > >> and
> > >>> know the content is safe. **
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
>