LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB Archives

CODE4LIB Archives


CODE4LIB@LISTS.CLIR.ORG


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB Home

CODE4LIB  January 2022

CODE4LIB January 2022

Subject:

Re: code4lib mailing list over the years

From:

Katherine Deibel <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 18 Jan 2022 00:32:39 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

There's also the critical aspect of what format provide usable artifacts of the discussions. What information needs to be readily available later? I will 100% support email over other options at times when I need that. With email, I can readily curate the messages into places where I can find them. A chat space typically doesn't allow that, leaving you to rely on search which is never good enough. Or even worse, the artifact of a meeting is frickin' video recording. Sure, AI captioning might help, but usually the information you need is never presented as cleanly as in written text. 

Also, I'll also ask why it matters that usage of the mailing list is changing? That happens. Shit happens. I'd be more concerned about it if anyone could articulate a particular thing being lost. I do miss some of the longer discussions that you get in email, but I'm a person who regrets that she never got into Usenet until its dying days. What would bother me most if we were not good about sending out information on all the channels we have available. If we do, then we tell people what the proper channels are. 

Katherine “Kate” Deibel, PhD
Library Accessibility Specialist
Twitter: https://twitter.com/metageeky
GitHub: https://github.com/metageeky

-----Original Message-----
From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Fitchett, Deborah
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 3:33 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] code4lib mailing list over the years

I’ve got a very different view from everyone else on these questions I think!

My view: too many mailing lists, not enough time. *Especially* not enough time. Probably most people don’t have a job where they have to subscribe to 16+ mailing lists just to keep up, but everyone has a job that should be being done by three people. If you’re constantly rushing to hit half a dozen deadlines then you just don’t have time for a leisurely discussion on a mailing list. That means you only post when you need to – which might be an announcement, or might be a question. But you don’t post often when you merely have an answer, and even less often when someone else has already posted an answer which may be incomplete but it’ll do.

There are exceptions to this. The Ex Libris community mailing lists (at least Alma, Primo and Leganto) are absolutely thriving. People post questions, people post answers, people bat ideas back and forth, people plot collective action to make the company actually fix the damn bug. People use it, so it’s useful, so people use it.

The EZproxy list is similar. (A bit less discussion but very good for targeted problem-solving.) The DSpace lists used to be similar up to even just a few years ago but I feel like they might be in a cycle of declining use -> declining usefulness -> declining use. Up to a certain point that’s reversible. We’ll see…

Basically, where a list makes people’s jobs *immediately and tangibly* easier, it’ll continue to be used and useful. But capitalism and downsizing and doing-more-with-less is poisoning everything. It forces people to focus on immediate problems-at-hand and short-term benefits, leaving no time for more leisurely/philosophical discussions that may have deeper, longer term benefits. In theory we should resist that. In practice we don’t have time to.

Deborah

From: Code for Libraries <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Tim Spalding
Sent: Saturday, 15 January 2022 11:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] code4lib mailing list over the years

Caution: This email originated from outside our organisation. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

"Mailing lists aren't what they used to be. Of the mailing lists in which I subscribe, zero discussion happens. There are really only announcements. I suppose the Code4Lib mailing list is no different."

At the risk of starting a discussion where nobody discusses:

1. Why are mailing lists dead for discussion?
2. Has discussion of the topics here moved elsewhere? If so, where and why?
3. Is any of this about Code4Lib specifically, about libraries specifically, about coding and tech specifically… or is this just a symptom of larger phenomena? What phenomena?

Best,
Tim Spalding
LibraryThing



On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 3:03 PM Lolis, John <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
wrote:

> Yowzuh! That's not only quite an opus, but also a thing of beauty 
> you've wrought. Quite interesting, too. I doff my virtual hat to you.
>
> John Lolis
> Coordinator of Computer Systems
>
> 100 Martine Avenue
> White Plains, NY 10601
>
> tel: 1.914.422.1497
> fax: 1.914.422.1452
>
> https://whiteplainslibrary.org/<https://whiteplainslibrary.org>
>
> *Some may say that perception is everything, but not from where I 
> stand.*
>
>
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 at 14:30, Eric Lease Morgan <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have done a bit of compare & contrast when it comes to the 
> > Code4Lib mailing list. And I can demonstrate how discussions about 
> > specific computing issues in libraries have declined, and job 
> > postings have increased.
> >
> > In 2011, there were approximately 3,000 postings to the list for a 
> > total of .98 million words. By comparison, in 2021 there were 1700 
> > postings
> and a
> > total of .5 million words. To put it another way, the mailing list's
> volume
> > has decreased by about half.
> >
> > I calculated quite a number of frequencies based on a wide variety 
> > of features (ngrams, parts-of-speech, named entities, etc.). In 2011 
> > the
> names
> > of people dominated the entities, but in 2022 the names of 
> > organizations dominated. When I did topic modeling against 2011, themes included:
> > "conference", "library", and "data". On the other hand, themes from 
> > 2022
> > included: "library", "experience", and "digital".
> >
> > Probably the most telling model was the word collocations. While the 
> > attached images may be too small to appreciate all the nuances, the 
> > 2011 graph includes the names of many individual people and 
> > computing issues like "data", "MARC", and "RDF". The 2021 graph has 
> > a much larger emphasis on "experience", and there is a set of 
> > related words regarding race & gender, which come from the boiler plate paragraphs of job postings.
> >
> > Mailing lists aren't what they used to be. Of the mailing lists in 
> > which
> I
> > subscribe, zero discussion happens. There are really only announcements.
> I
> > suppose the Code4Lib mailing list is no different.
> >
> > That said, the mailing list's subscription base continues to slowly 
> > increase. We are about 3,800 people strong. On the other hand, a 
> > robot is the most frequent poster to the list. Signs of the times? 
> > :-D
> >
> > --
> > Eric Lease Morgan
> > Navari Family Center for Digital Scholarship Hesburgh Libraries 
> > University of Notre Dame
> >
> > 574/631-8604
> > https://cds.library.nd.edu<https://cds.library.nd.edu>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


--
Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding<http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding>

________________________________

"The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use, distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together with all attachments from your system."

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTS.CLIR.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager